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FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Undervaluing our own produced players |
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| I think it's partly the case now that both chairmen and fans are wary of big signings because so many of them have flunked.
In earlier eras when we made massive signings - I'm thinking Hanley, Gregory, Lydon, Bell etc - the question never arose about whether they'd be any good or not. You expected them to live up to their star billing, and they all did. But now, strangely - and worryingly, given how much more money in real terms these men can command - you're never sure. For example, of the three Melbourne players we signed, only Ryan Hoffman did the business, and he was the one who was only ever going to stay for a single year. Aside from that (as I don't think you can classify Pat Richards and George Carmont as massive signings), the last overseas star we recruited who proved his status was Trent Barrett. And it's not just the Aussies. Stuart Fielden, anyone?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think we should stop making big signings. It's one of the most exciting aspects of following a sports team. But the risk these days seems to be massive. It's certainly less so when you're developing your own talent, though the efficiency of that system is reduced when these guys suddenly decide they want to go Down Under with only a couple of years' pro experience under their belts.
The only solution to that latter problem (if we're not going to raise the salary cap so that we can compete) is to tell these lads and their agents that they're won't be getting a safety net. In other words, if it all goes wrong for them in Aus, which it does for so many, they'll have to go through the whole rigmarole of finding themsleves a new club in the UK, and it won't be Wigan.
We might not be able to change this pernicious culture that has crept into the club, but we can make it less attractive.
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| Quote: Ziggy Stardust "Yeah, we threw too much money at average overseas players, but now we are throwing too much money at average homegrown players.
Look at our current signed in players 'Sarg, Clubb, Flower, Isa, Tautai, Bateman, Hamlin' Bang average apart from Bateman, these players are supposed to compliment our homegrown but how can they when they are average joe's.
We have two Marquee player slots, two slots where you can sign a player on 1 million a year if you wish with only 100 grand counting on the cap, and we have ST and GW in those slots. They both should be on a good wage but not a Marquee wage.
The cap management is terrible, we are spending more than any other club but i can't see where the money is going.
We do have some good young players in the team but they are not being helped by the really poor recruitment from outside the club.
It as if Waney doesn't want anyone else in the club if they have a big ego or different view to his practices.'"
Not sure how you put Flower in the bang average bracket when he's achieved more than plenty of the Leeds players in your list.
For that matter, I'd argue Sarge has had a bigger impact in winning trophys than some of those Leeds names, Ferres, Griffin & Garbutt (so far) to name a few.
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| Quote: Jeff the God of Biscuits "I think his point was that Bradford spent big money on Harris, and it pretty much doomed them and the club.
Leeds built a team around 5 or 6 outstanding local talents and built a dynasty from that.
It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but I believe this was the point being made.'"
Thanks Jeff, I honestly couldn't understand his point as Leeds, to me, as a good mixture of local and signings.
They had the likes of Sinfield, Burrow, Danny Mags, but also brought in the likes of Peacock. Webb, Hardaker, Senior, Kyle to name few.
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| Quote: Jukesays "I'm not trying to justify anything.
I'm saying that if any club in the league had signed 4/5 players of the quality of burgess/davies/marahall/Williams etc on the money we paid they'd be looking at them as great signings.
SOME of our fans take them for granted and imo think we should pay them less as we've produced them.
We may get first dibs but the lads deserve the right money.
I'm not sure why people keep saying where's the money gone. We have the largest wage bill but pay the same as say saints When you exclude marquee payments (saints will pay 2 x players as marquee and only the first 100k or whatever it is and thenabove that is kind of irrelevant for this dicussion) they will pay the same out as Wigan I.e.1.85million or whatever it is.
Now
Look at their squad numbers from 20 onwards (Barba apart as he's no1 obviously) and then look at wigans.
I know who's I'd rather have.
The argument then would be would you rather have 18/19 top players and very little else or a squad of 26/27 plus, that in effect is where some of the money has gone.
I'm not privy too what every player is on (I know a couple) but I do know that whatever people think end of the day it's perception.
Player x is on 125k - some think that's a lot and some think it isn't.
My argumemt wasn't about whether you go for 18 top players or a bigger squad, each to their own i suppose and pro's and con's for both imo.
I'm saying that wigans investment in the systems, infrastructure etc is well worth it's cost and when players come out of this system and earn bigger contacts I for one applaud the players and the club for earning and paying it (and with the temptations of large money in other places paying them is even more imperative).
SOME fans say why doesn't leneghan splash the cash, yet we pay more money out than other clubs, he can't win.
SOME fans on one hand are lauding wire for signing 3/4 players every year and then we all sit and giggle when it doesn't work or have longevity.
We do make signings, we sign a lot of our own younger lads every year (each one with different risk rewards).
I look at Davies and Marshall as new signings for example. Others see them as youngsters who should be happy to be at Wigan for the privilege. If we undervalue these lads then other clubs won't.'"
they aren't signings though (other than Burgess, slight exception as he came back). youth is youth, signings are signings. neither inspired me last year and still have a fair way to go this season to justify what they want or demand.
and again let me point out, i'm not saying our youth isn't good enough, it really is fantastic, but after one or two seasons they seem to think they can take on a team of thurstons and be paid accordingly. so my point remains, I don't think the club is handling them very well.
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| If only we had the junior set-up that the Aussies have! We see teenagers walk into NRL teams and be star players, whereas their equivalents in SL are undercooked in comparison. And the reason is that those Aussie kids, although only 18 or 19, have been battle-hardened in the tough junior comps there.
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock
"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"
[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]
Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"
I thanked him and went on my Merry way!
RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!
"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."
Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: WiganBurt "they aren't signings though (other than Burgess, slight exception as he came back). youth is youth, signings are signings. neither inspired me last year and still have a fair way to go this season to justify what they want or demand.
and again let me point out, i'm not saying our youth isn't good enough, it really is fantastic, but after one or two seasons they seem to think they can take on a team of thurstons and be paid accordingly. so my point remains, I don't think the club is handling them very well.'"
And herein lies my point
If gildart has 6 months left on his contract and wire or hull or nrl (slightly different argument) come in and sign him they would see that as a big signing and would pay him accordingly.
Why shouldn't we?
Tom Davies signed a new contract late last year, why shouldn't we see that as a new signing and why shouldn't he get paid in line with his performances and in line with his market value?
Etc.
Now some people can choose not to look at it that way (and tend to be the more critical of posters?).
Some may never have considered that particular view point (I hadn't really up until 4/5 months ago when Someone said it to me). And if they don't agree fair enough, if they do fair enough.
But I wanted to put that argument across so that people consider it when complaining about lack of signings because without a doubt this way of bringing the youth through impacts on what we do with the money at the top end.
Ps. What we then do with the money and who we sign etc from outside (or bring people back) is a different argument.
Not sure why some people would be happy if we signed a Percival and paid him top dollar and would praise the club but we don't seem to appreciate it when the club sign gildart and also want him to be paid less?
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Wigan |
15 |
427 |
170 |
257 |
26 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
St.Helens |
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429 |
170 |
259 |
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Warrington |
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406 |
213 |
193 |
22 |
Hull KR |
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383 |
201 |
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Salford |
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295 |
288 |
7 |
20 |
Catalans |
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288 |
220 |
68 |
18 |
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Leeds |
16 |
291 |
286 |
5 |
18 |
Huddersfield |
16 |
298 |
365 |
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12 |
Leigh |
15 |
270 |
250 |
20 |
11 |
Castleford |
16 |
246 |
435 |
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Hull FC |
15 |
198 |
474 |
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LondonB |
16 |
156 |
615 |
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486 |
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344 |
26 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
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382 |
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165 |
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Bradford |
13 |
341 |
218 |
123 |
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Toulouse |
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332 |
174 |
158 |
16 |
Widnes |
13 |
315 |
245 |
70 |
15 |
Featherstone |
13 |
330 |
283 |
47 |
12 |
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Batley |
13 |
205 |
286 |
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12 |
Doncaster |
13 |
237 |
325 |
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York |
14 |
285 |
293 |
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