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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Just before the start of the season I wrote quite a long post about trying to be positive for the new season etc. And although not everything I was positive about has come to fruition (Sarge for example, although I was abig gelling fan and others aren't, and maybe the props) however at the end of my post I wrote the :-

"One Final thing though
I mentioned If Gildart had been a new signing the fans would be happier etc.
Wigan have took some stick in off season but we have to remember the "Youth" players brought through by the club and fully value their worth.
If We had to go out and Buy a Gildart, Burgess, Sutton, Shorrocks. Tom Davies, Wells, Marshall etc. it would cost us either in big transfers or inflated wages. yet I suspect the "Fans" would be happy as it would appear that the club was splashing the cash.
Well IMO they are splashing the cash, but they're doing it at the front end, investing in youth, investing in the future.

When these lads develop they renegotiate their contracts and when we then Improve their Pay due to advanced progression such as Williams/Gildart/Burgess/Sutton etc. in recent years we almost forget the clubs investment previously in them and I think some take these players for granted.
I've seen how Wire are being given credit for going out and signing new players and the fans are lapping it up, fair play to them, but I'm not sure going out every 2/3 years and paying big money/wages for players is the way to go as a Plan for the future? If these signings don't work out or get injured etc where is the infrastructure behind this plan?
Wigan are investing in these youngsters, they're rewarding these youngsters with Good 1st team money when necessary and for me these should be seen as signings, not taken for granted.
Anyway, onwards & upwards"

Now I just happened to stumble across a thread on the Wire board bemoaning the talent produced by their academy and a comparison was made with the Wigan production line.
Now when you look at the players wire have listed as products of their academy and compare it to Wigans it is frightening the difference in both numbers and quality.
Secondly you look at a lot of the wigan talent that wasn't identified by the Wire fans ot makes you realise how vast the sifference actually is.

It reminded me of my post where I tried to explain how I feel the club don't get the credit it deserves from it's speccies for producing these lads and I have seen lots of posts were some fans are stating that a lot of our lads are getting over paid (or they seem to intimate that).
I could not disagree more and I likened the contract extensions and signing of young lads from the academy over the last 4/5 years and the improvements In their contracts is akin to going out and buying 2/3 New players every year yet the fans want to say "Wire have splashed the cash, why don't we?"
I made a comparison to wire and how their fans were lapping up their new big name signings but wasn't sure it's the way to go.
I'm more than happy front ending some of our money/wages and paying our youngsters what theyre worth and providing an environment for their development.
In the long run and certainly given the current rules on salary cap etc. It's got to be the way to go.

Check out the Wire thread

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=613636
Just before the start of the season I wrote quite a long post about trying to be positive for the new season etc. And although not everything I was positive about has come to fruition (Sarge for example, although I was abig gelling fan and others aren't, and maybe the props) however at the end of my post I wrote the :-

"One Final thing though
I mentioned If Gildart had been a new signing the fans would be happier etc.
Wigan have took some stick in off season but we have to remember the "Youth" players brought through by the club and fully value their worth.
If We had to go out and Buy a Gildart, Burgess, Sutton, Shorrocks. Tom Davies, Wells, Marshall etc. it would cost us either in big transfers or inflated wages. yet I suspect the "Fans" would be happy as it would appear that the club was splashing the cash.
Well IMO they are splashing the cash, but they're doing it at the front end, investing in youth, investing in the future.

When these lads develop they renegotiate their contracts and when we then Improve their Pay due to advanced progression such as Williams/Gildart/Burgess/Sutton etc. in recent years we almost forget the clubs investment previously in them and I think some take these players for granted.
I've seen how Wire are being given credit for going out and signing new players and the fans are lapping it up, fair play to them, but I'm not sure going out every 2/3 years and paying big money/wages for players is the way to go as a Plan for the future? If these signings don't work out or get injured etc where is the infrastructure behind this plan?
Wigan are investing in these youngsters, they're rewarding these youngsters with Good 1st team money when necessary and for me these should be seen as signings, not taken for granted.
Anyway, onwards & upwards"

Now I just happened to stumble across a thread on the Wire board bemoaning the talent produced by their academy and a comparison was made with the Wigan production line.
Now when you look at the players wire have listed as products of their academy and compare it to Wigans it is frightening the difference in both numbers and quality.
Secondly you look at a lot of the wigan talent that wasn't identified by the Wire fans ot makes you realise how vast the sifference actually is.

It reminded me of my post where I tried to explain how I feel the club don't get the credit it deserves from it's speccies for producing these lads and I have seen lots of posts were some fans are stating that a lot of our lads are getting over paid (or they seem to intimate that).
I could not disagree more and I likened the contract extensions and signing of young lads from the academy over the last 4/5 years and the improvements In their contracts is akin to going out and buying 2/3 New players every year yet the fans want to say "Wire have splashed the cash, why don't we?"
I made a comparison to wire and how their fans were lapping up their new big name signings but wasn't sure it's the way to go.
I'm more than happy front ending some of our money/wages and paying our youngsters what theyre worth and providing an environment for their development.
In the long run and certainly given the current rules on salary cap etc. It's got to be the way to go.

Check out the Wire thread

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=613636


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Quote: Ziggy Stardust "Yeah, we threw too much money at average overseas players, but now we are throwing too much money at average homegrown players.

Look at our current signed in players 'Sarg, Clubb, Flower, Isa, Tautai, Bateman, Hamlin' Bang average apart from Bateman, these players are supposed to compliment our homegrown but how can they when they are average joe's.

We have two Marquee player slots, two slots where you can sign a player on 1 million a year if you wish with only 100 grand counting on the cap, and we have ST and GW in those slots. They both should be on a good wage but not a Marquee wage.

The cap management is terrible, we are spending more than any other club but i can't see where the money is going.

We do have some good young players in the team but they are not being helped by the really poor recruitment from outside the club.

It as if Waney doesn't want anyone else in the club if they have a big ego or different view to his practices.'"


Not sure how you put Flower in the bang average bracket when he's achieved more than plenty of the Leeds players in your list.

For that matter, I'd argue Sarge has had a bigger impact in winning trophys than some of those Leeds names, Ferres, Griffin & Garbutt (so far) to name a few.

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Quote: Jeff the God of Biscuits "I think his point was that Bradford spent big money on Harris, and it pretty much doomed them and the club.

Leeds built a team around 5 or 6 outstanding local talents and built a dynasty from that.

It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but I believe this was the point being made.'"


Thanks Jeff, I honestly couldn't understand his point as Leeds, to me, as a good mixture of local and signings.

They had the likes of Sinfield, Burrow, Danny Mags, but also brought in the likes of Peacock. Webb, Hardaker, Senior, Kyle to name few.

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Quote: Jukesays "I'm not trying to justify anything.
I'm saying that if any club in the league had signed 4/5 players of the quality of burgess/davies/marahall/Williams etc on the money we paid they'd be looking at them as great signings.
SOME of our fans take them for granted and imo think we should pay them less as we've produced them.
We may get first dibs but the lads deserve the right money.
I'm not sure why people keep saying where's the money gone. We have the largest wage bill but pay the same as say saints When you exclude marquee payments (saints will pay 2 x players as marquee and only the first 100k or whatever it is and thenabove that is kind of irrelevant for this dicussion) they will pay the same out as Wigan I.e.1.85million or whatever it is.

Now
Look at their squad numbers from 20 onwards (Barba apart as he's no1 obviously) and then look at wigans.
I know who's I'd rather have.

The argument then would be would you rather have 18/19 top players and very little else or a squad of 26/27 plus, that in effect is where some of the money has gone.

I'm not privy too what every player is on (I know a couple) but I do know that whatever people think end of the day it's perception.
Player x is on 125k - some think that's a lot and some think it isn't.

My argumemt wasn't about whether you go for 18 top players or a bigger squad, each to their own i suppose and pro's and con's for both imo.

I'm saying that wigans investment in the systems, infrastructure etc is well worth it's cost and when players come out of this system and earn bigger contacts I for one applaud the players and the club for earning and paying it (and with the temptations of large money in other places paying them is even more imperative).

SOME fans say why doesn't leneghan splash the cash, yet we pay more money out than other clubs, he can't win.
SOME fans on one hand are lauding wire for signing 3/4 players every year and then we all sit and giggle when it doesn't work or have longevity.
We do make signings, we sign a lot of our own younger lads every year (each one with different risk rewards).

I look at Davies and Marshall as new signings for example. Others see them as youngsters who should be happy to be at Wigan for the privilege. If we undervalue these lads then other clubs won't.'"


they aren't signings though (other than Burgess, slight exception as he came back). youth is youth, signings are signings. neither inspired me last year and still have a fair way to go this season to justify what they want or demand.

and again let me point out, i'm not saying our youth isn't good enough, it really is fantastic, but after one or two seasons they seem to think they can take on a team of thurstons and be paid accordingly. so my point remains, I don't think the club is handling them very well.

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If only we had the junior set-up that the Aussies have! We see teenagers walk into NRL teams and be star players, whereas their equivalents in SL are undercooked in comparison. And the reason is that those Aussie kids, although only 18 or 19, have been battle-hardened in the tough junior comps there.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: WiganBurt "they aren't signings though (other than Burgess, slight exception as he came back). youth is youth, signings are signings. neither inspired me last year and still have a fair way to go this season to justify what they want or demand.

and again let me point out, i'm not saying our youth isn't good enough, it really is fantastic, but after one or two seasons they seem to think they can take on a team of thurstons and be paid accordingly. so my point remains, I don't think the club is handling them very well.'"


And herein lies my point
If gildart has 6 months left on his contract and wire or hull or nrl (slightly different argument) come in and sign him they would see that as a big signing and would pay him accordingly.
Why shouldn't we?
Tom Davies signed a new contract late last year, why shouldn't we see that as a new signing and why shouldn't he get paid in line with his performances and in line with his market value?
Etc.

Now some people can choose not to look at it that way (and tend to be the more critical of posters?).
Some may never have considered that particular view point (I hadn't really up until 4/5 months ago when Someone said it to me). And if they don't agree fair enough, if they do fair enough.

But I wanted to put that argument across so that people consider it when complaining about lack of signings because without a doubt this way of bringing the youth through impacts on what we do with the money at the top end.
Ps. What we then do with the money and who we sign etc from outside (or bring people back) is a different argument.

Not sure why some people would be happy if we signed a Percival and paid him top dollar and would praise the club but we don't seem to appreciate it when the club sign gildart and also want him to be paid less?

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