I agree with the majority of your points, Cruncher. The one I'd like to highlight is the mental strength (or rather lack thereof). It's bothered me for some time that we no longer seem to have a sports psychologist on the books - or if we do we need urgently to replace them with someone better. The catastrophic lack of urgency, grit and ability to complete the basic skills well in certain games has led to some dire performances this season even, or possibly especially, when we have had more or less our first choice side available. Yet on some occasions (e.g. the Saints game) that same side has looked really good. They have it in them, and presumably the coaching style doesn't vary dramatically from game to game. Yes, there's the quality of the opposition but Saints are no pushovers now that Holbrook has turned them around. Changes in personnel are needed. and we do need fresh ideas from the coaching side: but I think we also need input from someone who can help the players find that mental steel as well. Yesterday was another "special occasion" game, the club worked hard to get more fans in and, as on similar occasions throughout the season, the players didn't turn up mentally. Frankly, I can't wait for this season to end - and I felt the same last year, though the Grand Final win put a gloss on 2016. I can't see that happening this year.

No arguments with any of this.

To be honest, I think it would be absurd if Wigan got to Old Trafford this year. It's astonishing they've got this close, but if they did, it would only paper over the cracks that have been glaringly obvious for most of the rest of the season. Plus ... how would we feel about seeing Wigan v Castleford in front of 70,000 people, with millions more watching on TV, in a game that Cas really NEEDED to win? Yesterday, they did us at a canter, with nothing really to play for and their best players absent. The mind boggles at what kind of beating we'd take in the final.

The season's over as far as I'm concerned. The time to start rebuilding for next year starts now.

You can't really rebuild when players have contracts...we are in a tough spot to be fair. Our lack of movements whilst other clubs are building for the future shows how financially tied up we truly are. We are the only club with TWO marquee players for goodness sake, that is laughable. Neither Williams nor Tomkins are producing half of what Gale, Sneyd, Parcell, Houghton are for their respective clubs (and none of those are MARQUEE). I have no proof but I believe we missed out on Sutcliffe because we simply couldn't negotiate, meaning players we have on the books probably aren't willing to move on!

For me the big earners that don't produce (Gelling, Joel T, FPN, Tautai, Tommy L and Micky Mc) need moving along...

I've said pretty much since my first post Gelling needs to go, he is way more of a liabilty than a luxury. A solid, defensive minded #3 is what we need.
I genuinely have no clue whats happened or is happening to Joel Tomkins...wether a full pre-season will help, I guess only time will tell. But the shear volume of his salary could be utiliised elsewhere for sure.
FPN & Tautai are in the same boat, zero impact and mistakes galore, typical Shaun Wane style players IMO. Out played, out worked and out enthused by there opposite numbers 95% of the games played.
Tommy L...he's not a 7, he hasn't improved us at all since Matty Smith left. This is where the bulk of any salary cap needs placing!!!!
Micky Mc...can't fault his enthusiasm and desire but his stats for this season in the games he's played are way of the pace..added to the fact he can't play a full 80...Parcell, Houghton, Daryl Clark, James Roby and even Randell (Wakey) are head & shoulders above him.

However, I genuinely believe Shaun Wane will have sat down with IL and told him, had we not had the "injury crisis" we would already have the top-4 squared away! Leaving it down to KO rugby for the Semi. For our chairman that is probably good enough when you consider we are World Champions and CC Finalists. I guarantee there are zero crisis or even worrying conversations being had at Wigan RL HQ. Therefore, I wouldn't get excited about any rebuilding. We will have the same management, same squad and same game plan next year. After Saints beat Salford and either Hull beat Castleford or Wakefield beat us, I for one will be pleased the season is finally over* but won't be expecting any announcements.

* I say this because I would be scared to actually have to visit the Jungle and play Castleford in a semi-final game they actually need to win!

It has to come from the top down and for me I think it is time we overhauled the entire coaching set up. Wane has probably earned the right to another season to put things right even though personally I think it would be better if he stood down.

For Wane to remain in place however we would need to change the rest of the coaching team.

Jobs for the boys mentality has crept back in, our conditioning which was once the envy of other teams has now been surpassed by most of the other teams, both fitness and our susceptibility to injury.

A real assistant with new ideas needs to come in prefereably from the NRL.

I could go on and on but to be honest I share the same lethargy at the moment as the players seem to share.

Season ticket sales next year will be very interesting.

Season ticket sales will be abysmal

Again, I don't disagree with any of this. I know we can't just unload a mass of players who are on a good crack for doing nothing and will have no reason to willingly leave.

But there are areas of the team where we can and should start looking to the future.

We definitely need to sort the front row and the halfbacks out. These are crucial areas where we have been noiticeably lacking all season. Tommy is a massive weak link in the chain. If ever there was a time to get the cheque book out it was now in relation to our no. 7 shirt. The same can be said for our props. If it was me, I'd be definitely be looking at moving on at least some of the players both you and I have named at the very first opportunity.

Whether it will happen, or not, I don't know. But IL has never struck me as the kind of chairman who allows his coaches to lead him round by the hand. There is surely no way the club can be sitting back now and pretending there isn't a crisis. (They certainly took drastic action when it became apparent that Nobby was content to sit on his laurels and watch us keep on failing to make the grade).

The worst thing is that Castleford yesterday really reminded me of the Wigan team of the late 80s/early 90s. A bunch of solid, highly skilled professionals, augmented with some real natural talents, who are very fit, excellently drilled and mentally strong enough to easily see out games they don't even need to win. No hot-and-colds in their ranks, no 'best mate' selections, no fly-by-nighters, no 'men of the people' who are mainly there for comedy value. It's more than frustrating to see lessons that we once taught the game being put into expert practise by others, while we ourselves have seemingly sleepwalked into mediocrity.

I agree with all of that, you need to earn the right to move the ball out wide. Sending one up forwards does not test the opposition defence. We had players making yards but no back up so the defence dealt with them easily

Damn. Just typed out a fairly lengthy response then the site crashed on me. Basically, I'm with Jonh and Cruncher (not typing all that again!).

Speaking up for Gelling, yesterday he was doing what was asked of him. He ran hard and took on the line and made hard yards. In fact he looked just like a wide running second row, If we could find another centre that is exactly where I would put him.

I think he's pretty good at centre to be honest. We are small enough at second row as it is! He is just an easy target for when we are losing, people also tend to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater at these times (e.g criticism of Gildart and Williams also in this thread).

I think a big part of the difference was conditioning. They looked stronger, fitter, faster, and have barely had any injuries this year. We can't overhaul the playing personnel before 2018 (I wouldn't want to anyway, though a proper 7 and 8 would be nice if we didn't have a salary cap) but we can make changes to improve our strength and conditioning, which I think would go a long way to helping us compete with Cas, Leeds and Hull.

Certainly don't think we need to make wholesale changes at all.
First thing to address is acceptance that performance throughout the season has been lower than the requirement.

Does the club management (IL/KR) believe we need to be better next year?
If so, what changes are needed to bring this?

Does the club just accept it the way it is (and that a freak injury period was the major factor)?
Will SW acknowledge that perhaps the tactics employed need to be reviewed, how open to change would he be? I think a few decisions need to be made (and yes I'm saying this even though we still have a remote chance of progressing into the playoffs, possible GF and potential championship win again), we have to be seen to change a few things just to get bums on seats next season.

Supporters are leaving in their droves unfortunately, unimpressed with the week-to-week performances despite final appearances and trophy wins.