I think the first quarter of the season we will have to ride the storm a bit missing Sam. But as long as we dig in and pick up the points in any way shape or form it will stand us in good stead. I really hope Williams injury yesterday was just a knock we don't need any more disruption to the team. As long as the correct players are being picked for the good of the team this year rather than because they are an experienced player and still get the shirt the following week even when they are not performing well then we should be the team to beat. Im interested to see where Bateman will be playing because for me if he's on the bench it will be a travesty. Front rowers have to step up this year they have a point to prove and this is the department we need to be firing on all cylinders to win the titles.

Not too bothered about the defeat yesterday. I thought Salford played well, but as people have said we were missing over half of the first choice selection, and the most important ones at that.

Disagree slightly about Tierney and Powell. Think Tierney has done well in attack and his tackle on Carney was excellent as a try saver. He wasn't exposed under the high balls of Dobson, who is just about the best in the league. Powell is a good player to have in reserve. He isn't a starter, but he is a reliable substitute in case of injuries to Matty or Micky Mac. He has plenty of experience now and IMO never lets us down.

I agree that Mossop looked better yesterday, and Tautai was better than last week also. With Isa it's too early to tell, neither good nor bad so far.

From what I've seen I don't think Fell, Waterworth, Wells, Gregson or Ganson are ready yet. Bretherton and Marshall look the pick of the youngsters. I think Higginson may get a start when he is fit.

Gelling improved yesterday. Manfredi had a bit of a mare defensively as he missed tackles that led to two tries and dropped a nice offload from Gelling that would have put him in the clear, but that is most unlike him. I thought Joel looked good as did Josh.

All in all we may be undercooked but it's a long season and I expect us to win things after our customary poor start. We may well lose against Cats especially if their pack perform and Carney is up for it. Pat will kick everything and it is written that he will win the game by a 50 yard drop goal!!! - So let's not stress about it.

The real thing is that with Under 19s we've slowly gone backwards from 20 year olds looking to make first team in Pre Season to 18/19 year olds. It's not right.

Completely agree. And it has showed the last two weeks where it has been literally men against boys in both games. Hope fully the new reserve team games will help us, but it may take a few years to get off the ground with only Saints, Wire and Hull participating. Anyone know why Leeds aren't involved?

You may well have answered your own question, at least in part. As things stand, the U-23s look like being infrequent friendlies played out in front of a small audience. Instead, we can give some of our better/older players a run out in competitive, open-age games for Fev and our youngsters game time at Hunslet. The players getting picked will be the ones likely to produce the goods for our DR partners, whereas, I suspect, the standard of an U23s team might well be more mixed (admittedly that seems less likely to apply to you than it does your U23s colleagues). And whereas Wane seems willing to give first team games to youngsters, McDermott at times shows marked reluctance to do so, preferring a more gradual route of progression. It may well just boil down to a preferred method of operating; it'll be interesting to see which, if either, proves superior.

I think the point being made here is that 19 is too young to make a decision about a player. They are just too young to offer a playing contract to and in some cases they have to be let go. Wigan have been successful with the likes of Burgess, Manfredi, Williams, Gildart & Hampshire but less so with the forwards, who take longer to mature.

For example, people point to Chris Hill and wonder why Wigan didn't spot him, but he was a stand off and then a loose forward before becoming a prop. Surely a reserve structure would allow slightly older players to develop without the need to make hasty decisions (as we may have done with Rob Lever for example).

Bit of a contradiction in the same paragraph. You say our pack is too small and then single out Ben Flower as excellent and he is probably the smallest prop.

It isn't all about size, it's vital to have the right aggression. Ben Flower and Tony Clubb both have this in spades and makes a huge difference. John Bateman (although not a prop) is almost impossible to stop no matter who he runs at and i have had bigger turds than him.

Moose just looks too scared to run with the required intensity these days, Tautai is a ball handling disaster, Crosby has the aggression but is very hit and miss and Sutton should be in the 17 every week because he also has the aggression. Lockers is a fading light and too many errors and indiscipline have crept into his game now but there is nobody else in there to take up the mantle to lead the team. Mickey Mac could organize things very well from no.9 and would give him a bit more responsibility and hopefully mature him a little but when you are one of the best hookers in the league and only play 40 mins per match... what's the point?

Lockers statement = !!! Really? Maybe not the player he was 2 years ago but at 31 he's not going to get any better but arguably best player in last Test Series and still best LF in SL by a country mile.

Mickey Mac = Keep seeing this 40mins a match thing being brought up but not many mentioning that he played the last half of last season with the dodgy arm that's now been fixed (Hopefully). Does no-one think that a fully fit Mickey Mac may have played more minutes without this injury?

Over the last couple of seasons some fans have blamed or commented about the substitution of McIlorum on the twenty minute mark for the fall off in performance. However in the last two weeks without him we have been 14 - 0 and 0 - 6 in those games at the same stage and then in both cases conceded three tries before half time.

Coincidence?

Of course it's a coincidence. You think one player is responsible for the score of a game?

I complain about the fall off in performance when MM goes off and is interchanged from the bench. It loses us games all season. Sub him with a man already on the field and we win!
Ganson played longer than 20 mins at Salford, the fall off occurred when Flower and Clubb both went off. Salford were a mile better than us in the first 20 anyway and were always going to score points in the last 15 of the half.
There was only one conclusion I drew from the Salford game and that is Salford had their first team out who were very good indeed. Well drilled, well coached and for 65 mins looked by far the fitter of the two teams. Our younger lads were outmuscled and out classed.
We shall see what happens after this pre season v Catalans.