McGuire to Wigan ! Wouldn't that be a hoot !!

As long as you send George Williams and John Bateman in the other direction ......

Well having read the entire thread I side with Grimmy and Sgt Pepper.

I don't think Wane can hide behind the statistics for much longer and his Wigan career is starting to resemble that of Noble. Noble could do no wrong for at least two years because he saved us from relegation and Wane is now living off the back of doing the double.

This season has been pretty dire in many respects. The away form has been shocking and cost us the LLS. A big contribution to that was problems with goal kicking which have been staring Wane in the face for two seasons. Only at the end does he give the job to Bowen. Who has now left so we have the same problem again.

Despite the home record some of the home performances have been less than convincing to put it mildly (Salford was one of the worst games I have ever seen).

Two seasons going out of the CC in the manner we did is very poor. Against HKR Wane made changes to the side and they looked like strangers and against Cas the season before Wane was out coached.

He chose to go into the season with one injured and two Rookie centres which backfired. It was by more luck than judgement we ended up with Bateman and Gildard there.

Smith has been poor but gets picked every week. Problems of leadership on the pitch have not been addressed. According to Wane himself we have been guilty of "dumb"play numerous times but we still keep playing "dumb" when it matters (CC v HKR and now v Leeds).

He also subs by the clock and can't fail to see when Micky Mac goes off we drop in intensity but he still keeps doing it. Why on earth he didn't play him for the full 80 in the GF I do not know.

Wane may have to deal with the squad he is given (though I not convinced he has no say in it) but there are long standing issues with the way the team plays that have not been addressed. I think a different coach would get more out of this squad than Wane manages in the same way Madge turned virtually the same team Noble had around when he took over.

Who would you turn to DaveO?

He doesn't have a clue. What a one-eyed post. So SW has been living off the double has he? It's not like he's got us to another Grand Final since then? Or even two? Certain people have an agenda against SW. I'm guessing the Grand Final loss didn't hurt too much for those people because they can argue they were right.

Pathetic.

One thing to consider is some of the luck wane had in 2013. Look at the CC run. I mean seriously. It was on a plate with a knife and falk. Then warrington having their players dropping like flies after they had taken complete control in the final. But I wouldn't be willing to take credit away from wane for that, as leeds were disposed of to get there and warrington injuries or not still a very good comeback.

I think the 2013 double gives wane more good will in the bank than he deserves, overall.

so he had some luck in 2013. He had some bad luck in 2012, 2014 and 2015. Or does only good luck count in the argument against Wane?

I don't think wane's had any bad luck. In 2012 wigan just weren't good enough in the games that mattered. Theres been no bad luck in 2014 and 2015. It wasn't bad luck that wigan had a man sent off. It was a result of the mentality wane had instilled into them. In 2015 leeds last mninute try worked in wigans favour, as it meant they had a far easier run to get to the final, and in the final wigan had ample territory and posession to win the game against a tired but big hearted leeds team, but simply weren't good enough to score enough points.

Don't shoot I'm unarmed!

FYI I was a nervous wreck before and during the game. If we had won I would have given him his dues, and have never called for a change before now. I don't think he is a terrible coach or anything but he isn't getting the results despite (IMO) having all the resources required to do so. I do think he would be under far more pressure but for a ridiculously easy cup run in '13. Ask Saints fans whether just getting to finals is good enough.

Would you agree he needs to go if we don't win either major trophy once again next year?

That's the million dollar question.

No one ever really knows who is out there. To simply look at the straightforward options like Powell etc is just scratching the surface imo. Heck the last two coaches to win the NRL GF are both 'left field' appointments - Madge from us and Green from the reserves.

I think that question gets right to the point of the argument people like myself and others are trying to make.

How long is enough before success has to be delivered? With the team and resources and an upheavl for two of our main rivals in Leeds and Wire we should be capitalising.

Don't expect an answer though. It's easy for the pro Wane brigade to talk about 'other success' like developing youngsters or reaching the GF. These things can't really be measured and are subjective to each individual (some are happy with 4 youngsters, others 6 etc) where hard facts like trophies in the cabinet are black and white - you either win them or you don't.

SW's bad luck was not getting Saints in the semi because we would have played a team who have ample territory and possession to win a game but are simply aren't good enough to score enough points against a team despite being the Entertainers of the competition. This would have had the team in top condition ready for a much harder proposition.
If SW has had no bad luck in 4 years I'm gonna start asking him to do my Lucky Fifteen every Saturday!
SW has also had back luck in not having a statue built in Merseyside thanking him for mentally damaging Wigoon players therefore ensuring they blow every game they play in and never achieve any level of success.
I'm not David Attenborough but maybe "Apes" don't have bad luck??