Lever can play prop or in the back row and Doran can play in the halves and hooker to be added to that list.

Fair play, i'd forgotten about Clubb. But he's never won a Grand Final at centre..





I'm not saying you should swap if you was ever given chance, I was simply replying to the claim that your rivals don't have the depth you boast, when in actual fact we have similar levels of depth at centre as you've show here yourself. I'd also forgotten about Matty Fleming who's been promoted to the first team squad this year, as Gildart has for you.

Percival - Sarginson
Turner - Gelling
Jones - Thornley
Dawson - Charnley
LMS - Clubb (I'll agree it's daft but someone earlier on the thread was on about Bateman when he's only played that one game against us at centre?)
Ashworth - Bateman
Fleming - Gildart

You seriously compare Dawson to Charnley???

You seem to have missed comparisons with Burgess and J Tomkins from your reply?

I'm worried about second row cover not the best case scenario. You need three to start and one on the bench, which means we're borrowing one of our four starting props straight away if Lockers gets injured (likely to happen quite a bit) or one of the others (bound to happen over the course of the season) or we're down to throwing in Lever/C.Farrell who are more or less debutants. I don't really buy that Tautai could get by in the back row either, he doesn't look nearly mobile enough.

Surely Gildart needs to play a few games at Super League level and prove himself before being dubbed as the "best young centre in the game?"

The step up from 19's to Super League is astronomical; Gildart has done nothing yet.

Burgess is an out and out winger IMO, he's never played as centre at Super League level has he? The lads that haven't played at Super League level are out and out centres so i've included them. Fair play Tomkins though, but upon his return from Union he's done nothing to make me envious at second row, never mind centre to make me envious of your obviously unrivaled depth.



Well Charnley is a winger for me, Dawson is a centre/winger. I could just as easily include Makinson instead who's probably played as many games at Super League level at centre as Charnley and was a centre at academy level. I can't comment on whether Charnley was, I don't know on that matter.


Still, it wasn't an argument of who's got better options at centre as we've both got decent options and better than most of the league (even if you have Gelling

), it was more of me replying to someone saying you've got unrivaled depth, which i've show you haven't. You just keep including different players who've covered at centre during games so i'm doing the same.

You say you have shown you have similar depth but you haven't, except by ignoring genuine options. I'm not saying Saints don't have options, you clearly do, but as the initial post you're replying to was about depth then it's equally clear that Saints don't have as great a depth either in terms of numbers or quality. By quality I mean options that could play without there being a significant drop in ability.

You discount Charnley, for example, as an out an out winger despite the fact he played for HKR exclusively at centre and was outstanding there. So much so they wanted to sign him in that position. You dismiss Tomkins as 'having done nothing since coming back from Union'. You do realise the circumstances surrounding that don't you? 3 years out of the game, injured when signed, no preseason etc. yet he still put in credible performances and made the England team! Are you also forgetting that he played the entire season prior to leaving as first choice centre including a Grand Final win? Please don't compare that to LMS who was shuffled into that position because of the injury to Hohaia and who wouldn't be considered a genuine centre in a month of Sundays! Bateman may well have only played one game last season, but he ripped you a new one from that position, outplaying both your first choice centres in the process. Even if we ignore him, Gildart, and everyone else you want to ignore, that leaves us 5 players who have played FIRST CHOICE centre at Superleague level. Add to this the fact that 3 of those players are full internationals compared to Saints's none and I think a comparison of relative depth is a little tenuous to say the least!

Who've I ignored though, genuinely? Burgess? I've gave my reasons for that, same reason I don't include Makinson. I've not discounted Charnley at all, I said he's a winger for me then asked whether he's played centre, while still including him during my list of comparing depth. You then go on to mention Tomkins, who spent a season at centre, so did Lance Hohaia in 07. Still counts doesn't it. Don't compare LMS, but then goes onto say Bateman counts as depth as he ripped us a new one in the single game he played there, okay then. LMS won a Grand Final playing centre, Bateman never. I went through the rest which you do kindly acknowledge.

Still, as you say, it's getting a bit boring and we'll agree to disagree. The only centres I'd take from you anyway are Sarginson for how he played for England in the Autumn and Gildart as a youth player with very high potential. Likewise you'd probably only take Percival from us. Oh, and obviously Dawson

No, I'm not talking about Burgess, Bateman, Gildart or anyone else as I clearly state. I'm solely talking about players who could play that position without any significant drop in quality. Outside your first 3 you have no one who has played first choice centre at Superleague level. You're fourth option has hardly played there at all and NEVER as first choice. In fact, he was playing championship rugby in July! after that there is no experience at all. How is that the same depth as the 5 options I have given you? It's not a p!ssing contest, merely a statement of fact. You're happy with your options, as you say, and that's fine. However that's not what you were replying to. You said you'd shown you have similar depth but you don't. It really is that simple.

Look, I'm not making an 'ours are better than yours' type argument here. That's down to personal opinion anyway at this stage of the 'season'. I'm merely correcting an inaccuracy in your post. Whether you choose absolute numbers who can play there or the number of players that have played there as their starting position you don't have the same depth. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a statement of fact.

At Warrington Bridge and Atkins have been allocated the 3 and 4 shirt but no surprise if Ratchford slots in there as a first choice. Also Gary Wheeler is in reserve whilst both Monaghan and Evans have previously switched from there wing positions to play at centre in Super League. From the second row we also have Grix when back from injury who has played a lot of Super League games at centre whilst Currie has also been selected at centre in the past. Beyond that we have Toby King who has already played first grade and was the stand-out centre in the recent academy series against the Aussies.

Admittedly biased but to be honest I think you'd find it difficult to argue against the experience at centre provided by Bridge, Atkins, Ratchford, Wheeler, Monaghan, Evans, Grix, Currie and King providing as good as if not better depth than Wigan have in the position.