Not this tired old tosh again. LH, in keeping with standard saints tactics last season, ran a deliberate obstruction line. Flower did what any player from any team would likely do, and ran through him. So if you want to lay blame at an instigator, then look no further than Mr Brown, who presumably laid out the sneaky obstruction tactics. If you think that is nonsense then you will have to discredit all the Saints fans blaming Mr Wane for Flower's aggressive reaction. Before you claim it's nonsense look how many people - fans, pundits and ex referees alike were surprised at how Turner got away with some blatant obstructions towards the end of the season. only matched by the ever sneaky Danny Maguire.
Perhaps if Wigan had been as good at it then Makinson would have ended on his , and not over the line for a try.

Surely discussing things like this in a reasonable, civilised manner is what these forums are made for? Fair enough if people start trolling and name-calling then step in, but that isn't the case.

We could always fill these boards with inane off-season tripe such as "who is your best ever winger with red hair" or "top 5 away kits" if you prefer.

I think I would prefer that actually rather than re-hash the Flower incident over and over. New thread agenda, answer a typical pre-season question and ask another. I'll get us started.

Ginger winger - Surely it has to be Brett Dallas. The guy had blistering pace, my favourite moment of his was when he chased down Mark Calderwood over the full length of the pitch to save a try. A greatly underrated area of his game was his ability to get a quick ptb as well, always got us on a roll when he returned a kick or took a scoot in. He didn't half take a lot of knocks to his cheekbones for his troubles though!

Who was the most improved Wigan player last season? (inc players who were at other clubs in 2013)

Dallas was a great player. David Hodgson is the only other ginger winger I can think of off the top of my head.

Dan Sarginson surely has to be the most improved? He was one under the heading of "potential" at London but by the end of the season he looked like a proper established Super League centre.

Damning Sarg with faint praise there, by the end of the season he looked like an international player, in fact he is just that.

But since we are being nice to each other. How about Jordan Turner? Early on in the season, some Saints fans had given up on him as a centre, then a change of position and hey presto, it looks like you have a player.

Haha don't be so defensive and touchy. I rate Sarginson very highly and I've said as much on several occasions. His form improved as the season went on, hence my comment. I don't think even the most blinkered Wigan fan would say he started the season as strongly as he finished it. It wasn't faint praise at all.

Turner had a good season in 2013, in fact he was named as our player of the year but he was decidedly average for the early part of 2014. His move to 13 (half back in reality) seemed to bring out some confidence in him and the added responsibility, that could have broke him, actually inspired some great performances from him in big games.

I still think he'll start next season at centre though.