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| This topic is one of the reasons why the NRL has 2 ref's. Both are close to the play and can confer in cases where there is doubt as to the circumstances of incidents, on or off the ball.
I dont think we have the number, or caliber of ref's to copy the aussies, so we should have video for all matches. These should be 'manned' by ex players. This would enable incidents to be reviewed (with a time limit) immediately and the relevant action taken at the time.
As a Castleford supporter, I saw from the stand that McIllorum deliberately intended to make contact with the head of Kirk Dixon in the recent league game at Cas. The ref bottled it and didnt even place it on report! This effectively reduced Cas to 16 men, left Wigan with a distinct advantage of having the original 17 and Kirk Dixon with a lengthy lay off due to a broken jaw! It was only when reviewed by the Disciplinary panel that appropriate punishment was delivered. This and the examples already given of players being put on report rather than being punished at the time tell us that either the ref's are incompetent or they need assistance from a second pair of eyes.
Whilst our ref's are allowed to bottle it by placing players on report or seemingly miss completely what is in front of their eyes they will continue to do so, because the RFL are giving them the tools to do just that.
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| I don't say this very often but this man has got it absolutely spot on ...
[urlhttp://www.hullkr.co.uk/club/news/article/Statement-from-the-Chairman[/url
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| the video shows the hull kr player holding the legs then driving them down towards the player its simple really. if he released the players legs then it wouldn't have been any different.
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| Ignoring individual grievances that we've all be storing up... I can't really see how this will work. Teams being forced to play games short handed will lead to obvious non-contests which in turn will hurt ticket sales and TV audience.
Solution has to be simple... and on report can be a useful tool where the referee genuinely hasn't seen an incident and is therefore unable to make a ruling.
However since they're all wearing head cameras these days, and therefore we can see clearly what they see... the obvious solution seems to be punishing the referee if they refuse to take action which could obviously have been made on the pitch. Since their introduction it appears that the broadcasters are reluctant to include the refs view in the footage unless its a 15th angle on an easy walk-in try... but on the few occasions they use it in penalties, particularly high shots, I've been astounded by how clear a view the referee has, not just on contact but intent as well... yet the tackles have just gone on report.
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| The more you encourage referees to make on the pitch decisions without referring to a second opinion, the more mistakes will be made. You can only eliminate some human error by using more and more technology. But, you will always get errors being made (eg. Ganson in the Hull derby at Magic) no matter how experienced the ref is.
I think that moving to the Aussie system of two refs is a must. It seems to me from watching the NRL that the support they get from each other plus the off field technology support leads them to be more decisive and make better decisions.
However if you looked at the incident in the Melbourne game on Monday the ref handled it well. It wasn't clear cut that there was intent to injure.
Saying that the ref 'cops out' is unhelpful. They are trying their level best to get it right, and do a difficult job pretty well in most circumstances.
I wonder how many people being free with their criticism have ever reffed a game? It's pretty easy being an armchair ref - you are never called to account for your opinion. As for the idea of punishing refs. They are already monitored closely enough. Start banning refs, and you have no-one left. Then no game!
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| All this discussion is really about the competence or the lack of gonads of the referees we have in our game. The situation is exascerbated by the muppets on sky constantly analysing the ref's performance and even having Cummins passing judgement on any borderlin decisions!
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| In these days of technology why not let the clubs have a pair of representatives (one playing and one coaching) and the refs review the video - providing both a judgement and a sentencing vote.
At least the views of the players and club can be taken into account as to what's important and what deserves punishment. The refs can represent the governing body.
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| Brian Carney also agrees with my opinion on boots n all.
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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"
Saying that the ref 'cops out' is unhelpful. They are trying their level best to get it right, and do a difficult job pretty well in most circumstances. '"
In one of the RU six nation internationals recently a player was yellow carded, the ref watched the incident again on the big screen, changed his mind and sent him off. Not often I say this but RU have got that one spot on and the ref in that instance clearly wasn't afraid to exercise his authority.
Now in the Hull Widnes game even a video review might not be conclusive but I do think if the tackle is a blatant spear tackle and three players are involved one has got to walk. What would he have done if there was no on-report system? Just let it go completely? Games would descend into ill disciplined fights if that was the reaction IMO.
Pick the wrong player? Nothing to be blamed for and it's the offending teams problem.
I think the problem the Hull Widnes game highlights is on-report does give the refs a way out from making a controversial and/or tough decision. It's human nature in a way. It's someone elses problem and the ref has followed procedure.
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| Quote DaveO="DaveO"In one of the RU six nation internationals recently a player was yellow carded, the ref watched the incident again on the big screen, changed his mind and sent him off. Not often I say this but RU have got that one spot on and the ref in that instance clearly wasn't afraid to exercise his authority.
Now in the Hull Widnes game even a video review might not be conclusive but I do think if the tackle is a blatant spear tackle and three players are involved one has got to walk. What would he have done if there was no on-report system? Just let it go completely? Games would descend into ill disciplined fights if that was the reaction IMO.
Pick the wrong player? Nothing to be blamed for and it's the offending teams problem.
I think the problem the Hull Widnes game highlights is on-report does give the refs a way out from making a controversial and/or tough decision. It's human nature in a way. It's someone elses problem and the ref has followed procedure.'"
Interesting discussion about this on Backchat the other night. Rod Studd, Stevo, Phil Caplan and a journo from the Yorkshire Evening Post (I think) were all of the opinion that the disciplinary body are letting the game down and that the sentencing is too lenient. They used Micky Macs tackle at Cas as an example of that leniency. Stevo wants to see bans of 6 months given out and feels that this would stop coaches and players from deliberately setting out to hurt the opposition. They also all agreed that the game will not attract youngsters if their parents feel that there is a real chance of getting badly hurt. There have been a couple of recent instances of this and they felt that litigation is just around the corner. The feeling was that the game couldn't afford this and therefore it needs to get tough on offenders.
The problem for most fans is that whilst we might broadly agree, no-one would want to lose the likes of Micky Mac for six months and I can imagine the vitriol on here if that happened. You need to be pretty sure that there is intent, and I believe that only the agressor really knows if there was intent or not.
Also, I don't believe that his tackle was any worse than many others. It's just that a guy had his jaw broken. Now, you can't have a justice system that is based on the outcome of the tackle and whether or not there was an injury. 'An eye for an eye' went out with the Old Testament (although some Muslim countries are happy to base their Justice Systems on something similar - not for me I'm afraid). Personally I think that getting a 3 match ban in MMc's case was about right, and he's had plenty of time kicking his heels thinking about it.
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| crazy idea, every rugby tackle tries to hurt the opposition with a tackle. The difference between a fair and unfair tackle can be half a second or half an inch mistiming. If they get injured 6 month them? Micky Macs was a terrible shame for the cas lad but it wasnt intentional as he was going down and copped a swing which a lot of players do to insert the tackle.
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