I think he is a good player, but no way he should be getting in ahead of the likes of Liam Farrell, just thats how I can see it going under McNamara!

I'm another that rates Kirmond and would have him here in a shot. I see him as another Ben Westwood who'll continue to get better and better after making the shift from being a wing or centre early in their career through to now playing in the forwards.

That's a side issue though and I get the point about McNamara. It's not players like Kirmond he shouldn't be selecting though its the tried and failed like Wilkin and to a lesser extent JJB.

A question worth asking is would he be as effective outside of wigan? Granted his defensive prowess is obviously impressive. But would his offensive contribution be as significant on the shoulder of a player other than blake green with whom he already has a fantastic link?

Good players adapt. If he would be unable to then he obviously wouldn't be as good as is being made out. Personally, I like him. It's just his size that worries me when it comes to the next level. At the moment I'd stick with the "big" back rowers like Westwood, Hock, Ellis (if he gets fit), Sam Burgess.

Liams Stats are outstanding and he's not alone, just to re-itterate what a few people have been talking about with our youngsters stepping up and our defence being solid, top of the missed tackles table is Liam Farrell with 0 from 226 big pat on the back, joint second is two more of our youngsters in dom crosby and logan tompkins missing just 1 tackle each from a combined 121 tackles and joint third are more of our young crop gil dudson, greg burke and sam powell all missing just 3 tackles from a combined 235 tackles. These are great signs for the future, all our youngsters out perfoming our seasoned pro's in the defence department!

Stevo mentioned on Backchat that "a few NRL teams" are watching him.....would be a bigger loss than Sam imo

On current form, he should be the first name on the teamsheet.

Lets not go overboard

Good player, but absolutely no way would he be a bigger loss than Tomkins.

Ye gods.

hes done it again. 38 tackles, 130m and 0 missed tackles. beast.