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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps
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Quote: Bilko "Interesting comments re

I don't see the similarity. Goulding was a victim of Noble's pick his favourites in any position selection policy and fell out of favour after a poor game v Leeds (when all the team were poor but he is the one who lost his place) virtually never to be seen again. He was also injured for most of one of those seasons wasn't he? He is also a natural centre. With Hughes it is simply just the same kind of compromise the team was forced into when Gleeson left and we had Joel in the centres. Yes it works most of the time but sometimes it doesn't and that us usually when up against a proper centre in the games that count.

Quote: Bilko "Whilst I agree the squad looks very thin on paper, players need opportunities and we really need to take a longer term view on such options. In this modern game of salary capping you cannot have the mentality of "we'll win it next year". Maurice tried and tried doing that and it failed miserably. The buy a big name way of doing things failed also under Maurice. I mean even Steve Renouf (one of the great centres in the games history) won bugger all here!
But we won a cup and a grand final in no small measure due to having some big names in the side such as Hoffman, Lima and Finch. Success in 2010 and 2011 didn't come on the back of a side like we are about to put out in 2013. I I also reckon despite the league win a big reason we didn't win either of those trophies again in 2012 was down to poor coaching by Wane and I think people are ignoring the difference in coach as well as the squad. I have been far from convinced by Wane this season and he has as much to prove as any of the new signings such as Green.

Yeah we could have re-signed Carmont and Finch and they would have been better options, but we'd still have been in the same boat at the end of next year....so what would have been the point? We need to take a short term hit for longer term gain.'"


But we won a cup and a grand final in no small measure due to having some big names in the side such as Hoffman, Lima and Finch. Success in 2010 and 2011 didn't come on the back of a side like we are about to put out in 2013. I I also reckon despite the league win a big reason we didn't win either of those trophies again in 2012 was down to poor coaching by Wane and I think people are ignoring the difference in coach as well as the squad. I have been far from convinced by Wane this season and he has as much to prove as any of the new signings such as Green IMO.

You also don't think this team restructuring is part of a master plan do you? IL promised year on year improvement and I for one was looking for the squad to evolve based on this not get dismantled. We have been just as unstable in terms of a settled team under IL as any previous seasons and next year shows we are at it again so I think any comparisons with the Maurice era are actually little different.

Quote: Bilko "For me our chances next year lay solely on the half backs and whether than can produce a kicking game. Leeds and Warrington made both finals last year, just ahead of Wigan in both regards, and it was the last tackle option that was the difference. Very small margin that cost us. If we can create some pressure on last tackles then everything else will click into place for me.'"


For me its the pack and the coach that will determine how we go. The pack looks much poorer. Wane has to be a lot cleverer in his selections and not believe his own propaganda by which I mean doing things convincing himself a player with one SL game under his belt is the right choice for a semi-final at full back. Sometimes the more conventional approach is the right one. I also think if he continues with the full contact training we will fade away by the end of the season once again and that would happen even if we had retained the players who have left.

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Quote: DaveO "This is very true. Madge got a virtually identical side to that which Noble had in his last season to go up several notches. Same personnel bar one and a transformation in terms of performances. If ever you wanted evidence of the impact and influence a coach has on a side Madge's arrival was it. You have more evidence of this based on our 2012 season. Wane inherited a CC winning side from Madge decided he knew better and proved he didn't (to everyone but himself I suspect).
'"


What you suspect is neither here nor there, but this little bit of add-on mockery does you no credit.

You know nothing about Shaun Wane's state of mind, whether he's learned from his errors, whether he's now adjusting his training and tactics, whether he's reconsidering his team-selections, or whatever.

We're all disappointed that we didn't win a major trophy last season, but to completely discount the fact that Wigan finished first in the league shows a pretty selective memory. That isn't good enough for Wigan - I'd agree. But it isn't like Shaun Wane was an absolute disaster as a coach.

I don't recall where you stood when Wane was first appointed, but I can't help wondering if you'd have been part of the inevitable chorus of disapproval if IL had ignored a young Brit to appoint another unknown Aussie.

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Quote: Cruncher "What you suspect is neither here nor there, but this little bit of add-on mockery does you no credit.

You know nothing about Shaun Wane's state of mind, whether he's learned from his errors, whether he's now adjusting his training and tactics, whether he's reconsidering his team-selections, or whatever.

We're all disappointed that we didn't win a major trophy last season, but to completely discount the fact that Wigan finished first in the league shows a pretty selective memory. That isn't good enough for Wigan - I'd agree. But it isn't like Shaun Wane was an absolute disaster as a coach.

I don't recall where you stood when Wane was first appointed, but I can't help wondering if you'd have been part of the inevitable chorus of disapproval if IL had ignored a young Brit to appoint another unknown Aussie.'"


The bitching about Shaun Wane is interesting. He was far from perfect in his first season, that is true. Perhaps he was a little over ambitious in wanting to win everything (but isn't that what coaches are supposed to do?).
Still, we came top of the league, missed out on a trip to Old Trafford in a game that we really should have won...yet we lost a close home playoff game against Leeds under Maguire too, as well as a challenge cup game. Wane isn't the first coach to lose an important game to Leeds by a close margin.
We also got beaten by Leeds in the cup semi final where Shaun Wane definitely didn't drop Sinfield's kick, didn't let the ball roll out of play for a 40/20, didn't drop the ball under little pressure in his own half, didn't get outjumped for a kick despite being 6 foot 4.

Sure, it wasn't a great season when it came down to winning trophies but it's not like we were that far away. Of course the loss of several high profile players is great news for those that want to blame Wane for any sort of failure because they are much likely to get what they desire.

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Quote: Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy "Wane lost four influential players in Hoffman, Coley, Deacon and Tomkins from that CC winning side. Therefore the comparison with Madge joining in 2010 is flawed to say the least.'"


Add in winning the LLS which we hadn't done the year before, and getting just as far in the playoffs.

ETA: Note to self always read right to the end before saying the same as everyone else icon_surprised.gifops:

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Quote: Cruncher "What you suspect is neither here nor there, but this little bit of add-on mockery does you no credit.

You know nothing about Shaun Wane's state of mind, whether he's learned from his errors, whether he's now adjusting his training and tactics, whether he's reconsidering his team-selections, or whatever.'"


You need to pay attention to what he says and you might gain an insight. He said during last season that he knew how he wanted to do things and he would keep doing it that way even if it was wrong - I paraphrase as I don't have the exact quote to hand but those were the words he used. On his recent trip to Australia he said what he saw convinced him Wigan were doing it right. He also moved away from how Madge did things so it doesn't take genius to work out he is going to do it his way come what may.

So before you get all sanctimonious perhaps you might ask what lies behind someone's opinion?

Quote: Cruncher "We're all disappointed that we didn't win a major trophy last season, but to completely discount the fact that Wigan finished first in the league shows a pretty selective memory. That isn't good enough for Wigan - I'd agree. But it isn't like Shaun Wane was an absolute disaster as a coach.

I don't recall where you stood when Wane was first appointed, but I can't help wondering if you'd have been part of the inevitable chorus of disapproval if IL had ignored a young Brit to appoint another unknown Aussie.'"


I don't give a stuff where coaches come from provided they can do the job and I will tell you exactly where I stood before Wane was given it.

I was all for it because I assumed we would get continuity from Madge to him. If you search back you will find me making this exact point as we all wondered who our new coach would be. I thought the silver cloud in the lining of Madge leaving was Wane would carry on where he left off having spent two years learning the ropes off the best coach we have had since John Monie. I never imagined he was going to decide he knew better though my suspicions were first aroused when he said pre-season he thought he could improve the side in certain ways as he gave the distinct impression he disagreed with what had gone before under Madge.

It's funny really because Wane was exactly the same after Noble left and before Madge joined. You could tell he was having to bite his lip in the interviews not to come out and basically say Noble was pants. I pointed that out at the time as well. He wasn't wrong either but there is a difference between disagreeing with a coach who was unsuccessful at the club and one who was.

So this says to me Wane has had his own ideas on how to do the main job for a long time. There is nothing wrong with that - if you are the one with the right ideas and are no too stubborn to learn from your mistakes but I am genuinely convinced Wane thinks he is 100% correct in his approach.

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Quote: DaveO "
So this says to me Wane has had his own ideas on how to do the main job for a long time. There is nothing wrong with that - if you are the one with the right ideas and are no too stubborn to learn from your mistakes but I am genuinely convinced Wane thinks he is 100% correct in his approach.'"


But you don't know it for a fact, so stop posting as if you do.

I'll say it again, we were all disappointed with the outcome of last season, but it wasn't so disastrous that most of us immediately decided to go head-hunting the coach after only one year in charge, during the course of which he was missing a couple of key players, and yet still managed to finish top of the league.

67 posts in 5 pages 
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps



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