But are we really going backwards??? I am not so sure right now. I think our attack has looked a lot more promising over the last few games. The combination of Roberts and Gleeson, looks really promising - both classy players. Also Carmont and Ainscough also look strong on the other side. I also like the balance of youth and experience, as well as the introduction of more British / Wigan players. Also Sam Tomkins looks like a future star for us, if not this season.

Of course we are really weak up the middle, and this is where I agree with all of the criticism over the lack of signings for prop forward. Also our attack lacks real strategy and creativity (which is why I keep saying we need to bring in a good attack oriented coach to work with Noble). Fitness also appears to be an issue - which, really there is no excuse for.

I thought Father Ted's post was excellent and summarised a good point - any team (including Saints or Leeds) would struggle with playing Cats in the circumstances we did. We started out well, but just collapsed up the middle. We definitely need to strengthen the pack - but I think the rest of the team shows lots of promise.

I am not a fan of Noble as a coach, but I think we may start to come good over the next few matches, if we have some patience. I will hold my fire before I call for Nobles head.

I know you weren't..I was just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be under the impression that we sack coaches every year ..and while we have had our fair share of coaches it's not quite as bad as some would make out.

Unfortunately as supporters, all we can do is be patient or give up supporting Wigan. I too am very frustrated, but I still honestly think we are going in the right direction, and patience will pay off. Of course I am just going by how I see things, and don't know any more than anybody else on these forums.

I'm amazed that Wigan did not sign a direct replacement for Trent Barrett at stand off. For me Noble still doesn't know which positions to play certain players to get the best out of them. Surely, most people recognise that TL is far better at hooker than scrum half. The full back postiion has been another one. Mathers, Richards and Roberts have all played there with varying degrees of success and failure.

Make your mind up.

First you accuse me of a simplistic approach of suggesting a prop would solve the problem now you are telling me if we get better players it would solve the problem. You are contradicting yourself.

I have never said players were robots and we already have some good players several of whom are Internationals yet we still play poorly.

My point is simple. We need a prop as part of fixing what is wrong but even if we signed a top class prop unless the team plays a different way then we won't see much improvement.

By playing a "different way" I mean eradicating the problems I referred you to that Cruncher summed up. To save you the trouble of looking for that post here it isCruncher wrote

Stick a top class prop into the team and continue to make those mistakes then we will not see much of an improvement and the person responsible for sorting the above out is Noble.

Dave

We do appear to be getting worse, the most frustrating part is, we aren't far away from a good team breaking out.

It would appear we need a new coach to enable the break through, but without another prop and halfback of world class standing, we won't make that leap.