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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"Firstly Mcguire did not cite lack of leadership as the thinking behind the leadership team but "to avoid overstretching any individual' and as a way of instilling responsibly throughout the playing roster. Telling, then, that he made O'Loughlin sole captain again the following season with this quote:
NEWS
Home . News . Warriors Announce Captain For 2011
Warriors Announce Captain For 2011
January 28, 2011, 00:00AM
Warriors Announce Captain For 2011
Wigan Warriors confirm that Loose Forward, Sean O'Loughlin, will Captain the 2010 Champions for Super League XVI.
The decision made by Head Coach, Michael Maguire, and the Senior Players in the squad sees Wigan reverting to having one Captain for the season but with the Leadership Group remaining strongly in place behind him to help and advise where needed.
Speaking about the decision, Michael Maguire, said:
"Having sat down with the Leadership Group to discuss the matter together, we decided to have a single Captain in Sean for this coming Season. The Leadership Group worked really well last season to help me effect the changes in performance throughout the Squad that were needed in our first year together and, further, gave a number of Senior Players the experience of leading the Team on match-day.
"However, the Wigan Squad now know that it is the responsibility of all the Players in a game to take charge and, whilst we will continue to use the Leadership Group in training, Lockers is seen clearly to lead from the front and was the unanimous choice to be made Wigan Captain for the coming Season 2011"
Doesn't really tie in with your spin on it now, does it?
However I don't really want to dwell on this too much. I was using the fact of his captaincy as a marker of his quality and nothing more. Whilst I agree the captaincy doesn't necessarily go to the best player (although it often does) it does always go to a highly rated player. Therefore as a means of dispelling the 'O'Loughlin wasn't a good player in his early days and only become a good player later in his career' it's a valid point. He was made Wigan captain at 23; the youngest captain in Superleague. Are you saying that counts for nothing?
It's also not true that I 'didn't like' you listing player's player (I'm not really sure why you word things in such a way to be honest but hey ho..) I was merely countering your fact by putting it in context, much as you sought to do with my captaincy point. How is it acceptable when you do it but implied as underhand or similar when I do it? You say argue by my own rules, yet don't follow your own advice! I've countered your player's player as you did my captaincy. Sounds fair to me.
i actually said upfront that the list of things was opinion and invited you to give yours. I wasn't, in this case, asking you to back it up but was just interested to see where we agreed/disagreed. There's no point arguing a case if we both agree on something! I'd still be interested to hear your viewpoint but it's up to you if you'd rather not say.
We clearly agree on your disclaimer so no need to add to that!
Today's game was magnificent, as was JB. As I've already said, I think he's a terrific player and no comparison to Lockers would change that view.
Not sure what you were referring to when you said "Always remember context, and where players have been played throughout their career". An explanation would be appreciated... As would these facts and figures I manipulated from previously. I still don't know what that was referring to either.
Keep 'em coming!
 '"
Its turning into a who is the tallest dwarf contest now |
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| Quote stpatricks="stpatricks"Its turning into a who is the tallest dwarf contest now'"
In what sense? Or was that just a platitude? |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"In what sense? Or was that just a platitude?'"
trying to apply logic to what are personal opinions, i do agree by the way that O'loughlin was a better player in his early 20s than Bateman |
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| Quote stpatricks="stpatricks"trying to apply logic to what are personal opinions, i do agree by the way that O'loughlin was a better player in his early 20s than Bateman'"
Ah right! Fair comment then. I guess a 'who is best' argument can never be proven absolutely as it depends on what best means to you. I do think you can give supporting facts to support your view though.
That said, I did PM LSOW earlier to say I think the discussion has run it's course so I'll happily leave it there. |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"I had a bet, Jukesy, with someone on the other forum around that time who was using this same line. I said watch how he goes with better players around him. He said it wouldn't matter as he simply wasn't good enough. He conceded after the test series.
I never did get that drink.
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Wasn't me was it? memory isn't what it used to be |
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| Quote The Whiffy Kipper="The Whiffy Kipper"Wasn't me was it? memory isn't what it used to be'"
No mate. Wigan Watcher, if you remember him? |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"No mate. Wigan Watcher, if you remember him?'" Thank god for that lol, He just stopped posting all of a sudden, very strange, he was a character  |
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No worries from me. Personally I don't mind a good spirited back and forth. We all have opinions, and at times they differ, that's a good thing, it would make for a very boring dull forum if everyone just agreed all the time!
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| Quote Jukesays="Jukesays"And who's bigger.
Ps
If I had the option of choosing who to sign tomorrow, a 24 year old John Bateman our a 24 year old Sean o loughlin I'm afraid there'd only be one winner by a country mile.
Around 2007/08 when fans of other clubs were still ridiculing wigan for their last 4/5 years of abject failure he was by far and away the best loose forward in the game over here. Lockers got caught up a lot in that ridicule and criticism and although I do believe he did carry on improving at 24/25 he was still seen by many experts in the game as the best loose forward in Britain.
Selected for GB in 2004.
Don't forget he played in the win in Sydney for gb in 2006. Man of the series against New Zealand year after.
The fact wigan were in disarray in 05+06 and a year or so before and after that were more off field issues than reflections of him as a player or captain/leader.
I think the team around him and the club in general improving heeled him mature but he was always going to be one hell of a player.'"
He's a great player no doubt and imo better than Bateman, now and in the past. That's not to denigrate Bateman by the way, SOL was born with more natural talent, it's just the way it is.
Hope he carries on playing for as long as possible. |
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