There must be more deep problems than we know, you don't start off a season like we did with wins such against Saints and then slip as badly as we now have.

It is completely a total waste of time doing marketing to attract cards until we have a winning team, we are just throwing money to the wind, fans in London or the south who may come along will not be like the Northern die hards who will watch through thick and thin it is in their veins we are still having to build that popularity!

Look as the crowds that the Bulls used to attract and then how they dipped when things went wrong, now thankfully the are building them again, but we start from such a low fan base as it is that we can't afford to lose anyone!

I have always given David Hughes full support and still do, but I think we deserve to know if the players may have been told something that is being withheld from us?

The answer is NOT TO DROP TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP this is plain desperate rhetoric from fans of a few Northern clubs worried about their survival, they are in a mess as well! the drop may do them more good.

Of all seasons with the July licence announcement that we have to make a total mess of it as we plainly are.

Firstly, I have to say I wasn't at the game - had a prior engagement, but caught the re-run on Sky later on (and wished I didn't bother!) I think more than enough has been said about the "performance". I use inverted commas, because it wasn't a performance, it was shockingly poor.

The crowd situation is now extremely worrying, 1,900 and to be honest looking at the stand on Sky, it looked lower than that. It's manna from heaven for the Northerners against expansion - we're struggling, Crusaders aren't doing much better, and the other three "expansion clubs" all make up the bottom three of Championship One (Scorpions - whose crowds have more than halved this season, Skolars, Gateshead).

I think the thing that worries me the most is that there are far more junior clubs around the South East now, but why do so few of them come to The Stoop to watch Quins? Just how are Quins RL targeting the kids playing the game to come and watch Super League matches at The Stoop? It's talked about how many fantastic young players are in the SE, so many more people involved in the game, but our crowds have got worse in this time.

I was in the Jesters Lounge at the Catalans game and a child was there in a Quins RL shirt saying "I don't see the point coming here any more. Quins are crap, they might be able to beat Gateshead, but that's about it."

This is very similar to the Salford board, most weeks.

For what it's worth, RL needs a team in the capital more than it needs a team in Wrexham!!! When franchising comes round you should still be included in the SL. The only thing i'd suggest is the RFL should get their thumbs out of their s and help the club out some more. The northern teams can whinge all they like, but a certain amount of the Sky money is probably down to there being a London club in SL. I'm not saying the RFL should give money directly to the Quins, but maybe they could purchase junior tickets, that could be distributed around schools. Giving a small amount of extra income and boosting your attendances. First and foremost the playing situation needs addressing, not so many years ago, Quins were competitive in SL.

Prehaps, instead of singling out one team in particular, the RFL could support the club that finishes bottom by affording them some room on the salary cap to strengthen the playing squad, maybe even offer some coaching support. At the end of the day, franchising was supposed to be about producing a more attractive spectacle, with financially stable teams. The current rules are merely being abused by the Crusaders and HKA.

I spent a while arguing with a Quins supporting mate after the match about your current situation. I think given the resources you have at your disposal you do about as well as can be expected. For me, the RFL need to support you directly with investment. I was shocked to learn that Quins don't even have a cost of living salary cap exemption available to them (I'd assume you're not at full salary cap, but the point stands).

I'd call it a discussion, not an argument

It gets very frustrating sometimes.

like i said at the start Dark clouds over the stoop!

The atmosphere in the stand on fri night was very sour even at half time yesterday
Bottom line is the team need to start winning some games at home, that stat of the numeber of home wins in the last 3 years is shocking and i did not realise it was that bad

It does bring up all the old arguements tho, RL is thriving in our part of the world with lots of schools playing thanks to folk like J Cad etc, the southern conference has lots of players all over the South and South West, why do they not want to watch as well as play? I dont know the answer to that
Even the season where they gave free tickets to all registered players in the London area they still never came, bit difficult though when the kids and hobby players play on Saturday
we have 6 more home games this season not counting Challenge cup (assuming we progress) all on a saturday so count out all the london and SW am players turning up

we need a big scalp win at the stoop! how we are gonna get it I dont know

As for salary cap exemption, errrrrr and who is gonna pay for the extra wages? we need PAYING punters thro the gate to pay for anything up to never mind above the salary cap, so it is a bit of a circle that spirals out of control, nope i dont know the answer
should the RFL help us?
It depends if they want RL be played in London or outside the heartlands of the game
Its working in aus why can we not do it here? remember how The warriors struggled over there, look at the crowds there now

Yeah, I think this is the crucial issue, Mick. Either the RFL see London as strategically important to the future development of the sport and therefore seriously get behind hgetting a winning team on the park and attracting crowds, or the pull the plug now to allow Wakey to stay in Super League.

One of the other issues associated with this is that our national side will never beat Australia - and quite possibly New Zealand - while there is a team this poor in our so-called "Elite" competition. Should they be replaced with another team? No! We need to reduce the number of teams in SL and have them play fewer matches at greater intensity.

ahhh now this is where we start to disagree over what matters, I personally dont give a toss about the international game, even though I went to Aus for the world cup supporting England, even had my face paint on
Why reduce the number of weekly rounds in the domestic season and deny club supporters the chance to watch there team
What do we have 27 rounds? the NRL has 26 rounds!! then both comps have the play offs, Aus then has State of Origin and the Anzac test!!!
so all in all probably about the same about of game time, why would reducing the number of SL matches make England any better?
so sorry Jeff the international thing is not an excuse
I do think the easter prog is pretty crazy, so many games in such a short period cannot be good for the game

I do think what we have to remember is there has to be teams at the bottom as well as the top of the table N QLD won 5 last season cronulla 7 in 24 rounds last year
sadly at the mo we have been one of the lower teams for the last few years

but my priority is still the 20 odd rounds of super league not 3 or 4 internationals a year

It does bring up all the old arguements tho, RL is thriving in our part of the world with lots of schools playing thanks to folk like J Cad etc, the southern conference has lots of players all over the South and South West, why do they not want to watch as well as play? I dont know the answer to that
Even the season where they gave free tickets to all registered players in the London area they still never came, bit difficult though when the kids and hobby players play on Saturday
we have 6 more home games this season not counting Challenge cup (assuming we progress) all on a saturday so count out all the london and SW am players turning up

Answer: Because of lot of the games kick off in mid-afternoon from as far as Ipswich to Kent, Essex, St Albans and Hemel. There are also clashes with QRL academy fixtures. You also have to consider a lot of the kids are still attached to Onion teams and their parents don't want to watch league games and won't bring the kids to the Stoop.

Playing sport and watching sport rarely go hand in hand , very few junior players watch live RL even in the north , between them Leigh East and Leigh Miners have around 4/500 junior players , all play within a mile of the LSV , but it is unusual to see many at a Leigh game

Daft dad, that was my whole point!!!
Starbug, is it because they are all at Wigan!!!?

Some possibly