Making the parrallel (sp) between how we had reasonable crowds during certain periods of our history which is pretty much all Celtic have atm.
Cats have managed to grow their fan base but their crowds are not much better than the first time we were at the Stoop.
So the steps they have made have been pretty similar to our SL early years. We started to suffer once we started to move around.

But that doesn't make him wrong though...

Doesnt make him right either

Didnt say he was!

What have Celtic and Cats(sic) got to do with our lack of progress? Both totally different cases in different countries, the scenarios are completely different.

Our "reasonable" crowds were VERY isolated.

agree.
Was responding to someone saying that if Cats and Celts can do well...

Can I wade in with a pedant's oar and implore people to stop calling the Dragons 'cats' - Catalans, or Dragons, please.

Is it wrong to call Wakefield Wakey then?

No, because thats a nickname their fans use all the time. The above isn't.

Boring facts. SORRY


The Valley :2001: 41,993 Average 3,230
Griffin Park: 2002: 53,245 Average 3,803 +16% on the valley
Griffin Park: 2003: 49,641 Average 3,545 -7% but still 9% up on the valley
Griffin Park: 2004: 48,449 Average 3,460 -3% but still 7% up on the valley
Griffin Park: 2005; 56,047 Average 4,003 +15% and 23% up on the valley
The Stoop: 2006: 60,842 Average 4,345 + 8% on GP and 34% on TV
The Stoop: 2007: 44,596 Average 3,428 - 22% but down 15% on GP, but up 6% on TV
The Stoop: 2008: 50,821 Average 3,909. +14%, but down 3% on GP but up 21% on TV

So, the move from the valley to griffin park, over 4 years saw us increase crowds by 23% and reach the play-offs twice.
The same result is not possible at Quins because we have finished 7/9/9/ and would need an average of 5,344 per game this year to increase our average from GP 2005 by 23%.

In short, we have increase our attendance by 700 fans per game since 2001. That's 100 new regulars a year and will see us hit 5,000 by 2020.

Frogs....simple as


In fact, Cane Toads.....aren't they Australian Frogs

Sad to say found the vast majority of posts regarding the St Mary's shirt sponsorship deal both dull and futile.

So we have a 'deal', for one year I presume, but wonder what this junior sports uni. is bringing to the party 'cashwise', not much would be my view. Still every penny helps.

Which brings me to ask three much more important questions:

1. When are to going to appoint the new CEO?
2. When are we going to recruit a senior excutive with some real marketing & sports promo know how?
3 When are QRL going to 'arrange' a Fans Forum?

Havent got them to hand but when did SL start and what sort of crowds did we pull in then? and what sort of crowds did we get the first time we were at the stoop?

The club then was completely different. A relatively successful team full of Australians as well as stars that even non-RL fans would have heard of. Plenty more curiousity then as well I bet.

catalans and celtic [uare[/u prime examples of what can be achieved in a short space of time with the right people on board.

i love our club but i'm fed up of hearing excuses. i'm not saying their situation is identical to ours but saying its easier for them because they are in a provincial backwater and so its easier for them to attract local support is utter bunkum. we too could keep it local and go for area surrounding twickenham but we also have the benefit of 10,000,000 people (they have 10million sheep) on our doorstep if we want to widen our horizons.

brian mac is a prime example of what can be accomplished with the right people on board. our team on paper is nothing special and thats why we are always heavily tipped to finish bottom of the pile. but, because he is good at his job he squeezes everything out of them to produce top performances. we need a brian mac carbon copy off the field. sod it, give him that job too

sod that....imagine the appraisal/pay review meeting.
STAFF MEMBER: "I want more money"
BRIAN: "No.......next"

Can Toads are nasty, tough & poisonous 'critters' mostly found playing State of Origin for Queensland.

French 'frogs' aka 'grenououilles' are a unique frog type - now mainly imported from eastern Europe or China - which are best eaten fried as a starter in roadside truck cafes. or with a cream & wine sauce in town centre quality restaurants.

ARE YOU A UNION FAN?

A little plug if I may. All the above details are in the new Club Guide on the Quin's website.

The Big Bad Bingo Battle.

But that's what it is really all about, this great game of ours, don't you think? And people are not going to love a club and what it does (play rugby, help the community, whatever) in sensational numbers.

I actually think Harlequins [iare[/i in a unique position. Catalans and Celtic both have RL history to dip into. Take the Saints -v- Celtic game next weekend. So what? Well, Saints used to recruit quite regularly from south wales, with success if my RL mad Dad is to be believed. As a club we have real historical links with that part of the country. As such, there is a chance that Saints may be welcomed there a little differently from other clubs if there are people still around who remember or know of the connections. There are no doubt similar stories in the Catalans area because RL has been played there for a long time. There is a history there too. But Quins doesn't have those connections. It is a truly expansionist club and it's landed in an RU heartland in the middle of our biggest city where a plethora of sports are played and soccer is the usual obsession.

That a couple of thousand fans 'love the club' I think is very important and key to the future. A loyal fan base is what every club needs and if 100 more fans per year have been added since 2001 then I think that is a good, reliable situation. It's not glamorous but it's solid.

And you have a growing number of local lads in your team, don't you? That can only help. The more local blokes play for Quins and do so successfully the better things will be because the locals will be able to identify with the club. I know the new plans at Saints to introduce more of our local lads into the first team has brought a real buzz to the fans. It's exciting to see new faces knowing that some of them are St Helens guys, some from elsewhere in the country but have been through our club system. It's so much better than cheering for a Samoan who has gone missing because what does he care about Saints? Sod all is what he cares. But local guys, they are likely to care and fans will respond to that IMO.

Out of curiosity what have Celtic achieved? Please dont quote a 5000 crowd on the first game in SL.

You say you are sick of excuses. What excuses are they. Does it matter to you if there are 2000 or 5000 or 15000 at a game. You are only going to sit in one seat. Wire and the Pies have bigger crowds than us look where they sit in the league.

I was going to post exactly the same. Hopefully you will get a sensible reply.

I suppose you could say I come from a rugby league family. My Dad played at one time and has been an avid fan of Saints since he was 10 (he is now 73). He took me to the occasional match when I was young, took my brothers (one of whom played and subsequently became an avid fan of Saints!) and I have grown up with talk of Saints and RL and the old second half of matches on the BBC (plus the Regal Trophy, Challenge Cup when it was really exciting, etc) and watching the town empty on the rare occasions we got to Wembley. So I have absorbed a lot, including the story of the underground heating. Much was talked about it at the time but it came to nothing and I cannot remember why.


All I am aware of is that Pilkingtons at no time became sponsors. I don't know whether they asked to be considered and the board turned them down or whether they simply went establishment because they became so successful. I do think though that the Saints board may have been justifiably wary at the time in that Pilks were very influential in the town. They ran so many things and employed so many people. Would they have taken over? Required influence on the board? I don't know. I do know that pre-McMannus the board was generally pretty hopeless. It did, after all, get us into about six million debt and on the verge of administration by 2002. I believe McMannus made some stinging comments about bits of paper with figures on lying around the office when he first turned up!

Long histories are never clear but I don't think the Saints of today is a small time thinking club. But St Helens is a small northern town which still retains something of its own culture and character (in spite of the scouse invasion!) and Saints is a part of that, albeit not to the extent it once was. The club itself though is now very much a business and very outward looking. According to my Dad, it is completely unrecognisable when compared to previous decades.