I have read this post with renewed interest and have to agree there are fors and againsts in all of it. I have gold seat membership this year and will not be renewing it next year. It is a lot of money to pay in advance for seats I don’t particularly want to sit in. I understand the financial implications of all this debate and moving stands etc but at the end of the day it is my hard earned cash that I am spending and there are a lot of things you can do with an extra £300 per annum like a week’s holiday. I understand SKY has requested the move and because of the sums of money the club have agreed to it. But we as fans should have some form of consideration in the decision. |We do not own the club, we are not bigger than the club but without fans there is no club. How can you build a fan base when the long diehard fans are upset and walking away? A lot of fans did not renew season tickets this year and a lot are saying they will not renew next year. It is heard around the ground that the only way to show your displeasure is vote with your feet. I find this a very sad thing when our love of RL over a great number of years comes down to the decision of walking away. Can some form on compromise possibly be reached? Let the fans have allocated season tickets in the LV stand and unallocated in the East stand which would also double up with away fans. However on a SKY game all fans move to the East stand with the central seating allocated to season ticket holders on a first come first served seating arrangement and walk ups get tickets that are available and put the away fans behind the sticks at one end and schools and community clubs behind the sticks at the other end. This should look good on SKY with three stands fairly well occupied. I would not complain at moving for SKY games as I understand that our club like every other club in SL need SKY funds. We would not have to move seats very often in a season as SKY are very very shy of showing their face at the Stoop during the SL season. We are on for the second time this season tomorrow and there is no other activity with them planned for a further 6 weeks at least. So it makes it a very low ratio of movement. There would be no need to open the bar under the LV stand as there are bars in the ground, in the Jester and in the Kings areas so no extra expense incurred apart from a couple of extra stewards. What do other people feel? Is there a compromise to be reached? Do people have strong opinions? Is there a better atmosphere with noise from both stands? Or is it just a topic people can have a moan about but not really bothered either way?

Reasonable idea but it could never work in practice IMO. I don't think many believe that the club can justify opening both the LV and the East Stand. I think doing this for non-Sky games would be a poor move as well as often the Sky games are the "bigger" away followings (Wigan, Leeds, Hull).

The atmosphere in the single East Stand is good IMO and far better than last season.

And just out of interest, why are long diehards walking away? If this is to do with sitting in the East Stand rather than the LV then I would be very disappointed as the differences are marginal, especially for Gold season ticket holders such as yourself. However, it is perfectly understandable to not want to shell out £300 again as that is a lot of money and I would never considering paying such an amount in the first place.

Dont see why not being able to sit in the LV/lexus/the one on the other side from this one - would have any sway on my decision to come and watch the pro rl team i support

Can understand why someone would not want to spend gold prices to have to sit next to the away support though.
Keep the behind the goal stands open, its whats worked best in the past.

possible solution........
Open the Lexus and the south. Keep the Greene King bar open as well (behind the south) and open bar lorries at both ends.
Remove the "crap seat at the front" argument, but guess what....I somehow think we'd get complaints anyway


Might be a possibility.....but the biggest stumbling block is the position of the camera gantries.....facing the ....EAST.

Ive never understood fans who have experienced live top-level RL walking away from the only top quality RL club in England south of Wakefield. But they must have done it in their thousands over the years. Loyalty is something London/Quins really struggle with and is the one thing that has really stopped us growing. Every fan who has walked away from the club has made it that little bit less likely RL will ever succeed on a national level. I mean the clubs not perfect but its still the best sporting entertainment around by a mile.

I have walked away and I am missing it. My decision is however justified in that the first home game I would have been to watch is 19 April and maybe I could then see only 3 more in the season due to Saturday kick offs.

So for me its no good. I either want to see the lot or none, I am not someone who can watch the odd game

Still reckon Saturday home games is bonkers and clearly not working so far

Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go?

RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us.

1st

have one Friday NIGHT game
have one Saturday NIGHT game
make the rest Sunday afternoon matches

2nd

the east stand for home support and either open HALF of the North or South stand for the away fans (still easy to steward)

3rd

Realise that part of the reason attendances have gone down is partly down to people losing jobs and tightening the purse strings. Attendances are down across the board.

Good point. I think our crowds in particular will be hit hard due to the expense for many getting to the match, as a large proportion of our support comes from 20+ miles away.

Quote ="YED79" Realise that part of the reason attendances have gone down is partly down to people losing jobs and tightening the purse strings. Attendances are down across the board.'" perhaps in other sports, but not in League (yet) www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13087

Quote ="YED79" Realise that part of the reason attendances have gone down is partly down to people losing jobs and tightening the purse strings. Attendances are down across the board.'" perhaps in other sports, but not in League (yet) www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13087

Quote ="Tre Cool"Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go? RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us.'" NO, NO, NO. community, community, community. the clubs play on sat morning & afternoons. The kids and their families can't come to watch their heroes. Seriously - look here and tell me how many other clubs you can find playing on Sat's at 3pm - www.superleague.co.uk/fixtures.php?rid=322 Erm. Not one. Ever. Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers. 4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

Quote ="Tre Cool"Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go? RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us.'" NO, NO, NO. community, community, community. the clubs play on sat morning & afternoons. The kids and their families can't come to watch their heroes. Seriously - look here and tell me how many other clubs you can find playing on Sat's at 3pm - www.superleague.co.uk/fixtures.php?rid=322 Erm. Not one. Ever. Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers. 4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

Both issues you have presented are nonsense

Last year half the season was Sat and half Sun. The crowds were bigger on the Sat

All local players were given season tickets with there club memberships. It was stated by the club only 100 used them on match days.

im gonna buy you a record for your birthday

Mate - I am tired of you throwing this cack back at me, you have done it before. Wake up and smell the coffee.

This club has categorically disenfranchised the community game over a long, long period in the South.

How do I know - because I play in it and I speak to 100's of people in it every week. And I have for a long, long time. Bridges burnt over 10 years are not rebuilt over one season.

Can't you see that the biggest argument for building a community based RL club is based on the fact that NO other SL club plays games over the top of their community clubs fixtures. None. Nada.

Last years stats are completely skewed and not representative. The Saturday Wigan attendance was a freak opener, with more Wigan fans than Quins fans, plus a MASSIVE pre season push to get people in on free tickets. Also the community game hadn't started playing by then.

Inevitably if one plays Wigan, KR, Saints and Leeds on Sat's and then Cas, Cats and Bradford at the tail end of an increasingly poor season on Sundays, it's going to misrepresent the figures. Plus, seeing Paul Brown, icon of the community game and immensely well respected across it, disappear in weird circumstances mid season didn't engender a great spirit towards the club for the second half of the season.

Yes, more away fans come on Saturdays (further skewing the stats) but you do not build a club on away support.

As for the club saying that very few community clubs took advantage of the offer - they have no idea, they have never been good at keeping a CRM. It's just another knee jerk reaction to a short term perception of things not working, so we'll change it again. In the same way that they've changed ground, kit, name, staff, management, owner and attitude to community clubs for years and years and years.

A few other things - free tickets don't work in the long run. It's proven. They are valueless. Little Jimmy goes home to his mother and says - I have free tickets to Quins RL. How on earth do these tickets then ever have value? Once something is free, it's expected to be free forever. You can't attach value to it.

Cashback schemes to clubs have been tried and have worked in the past. Until the club lost the staff who put them in place and everything fell apart.....

WQ - please come back to me with some thought through, intellectual arguments instead of one off statements that you think are representative.

I don't expect a lot of sympathy for the community game on these boards - you are generally all hard core, die hard fans who come to games because you believe (like I do) that we have the best sporting product there is. But not many other Londoners agree with you and we need to embrace those that do. It's not an overnight project.....but the sooner the community game is respected and nurtured to come to games, the better.

This too might be stuck record, but believe me - in spite of their fans loving it, every Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL is p1ssing themselves laughing at our Saturday 3pm k.o.

I think that is absolute rubbish. Who thinks that in today's world? Ever heard of introductory offers? I get a free 90-day trial for Lovefilm but I am fully aware it is not free forever. That is a bizarre thing to say.



any evidence for that claim other than just guesswork?

I have it from the horses mouth, and more than one example. I would not let them down by providing more evidence on here but please take my word.

This club invests heavily in a community programme - look at the numbers of staff described on the website FFS. The end goal of this (and ONLY real original reason for its existence) is to increase attendances. But with the same breath the club makes it structurally impossible to achieve this goal. Work that one out! Nuts, absolutely nuts.

Other than that, I'd just like to say: What he says...

so Sundays [iare[/i better?

Penguin, this is not a DVD subscription service. It is sport. There is strong evidence that when something is freely given away (like a SEASON TICKET - all season..!!!!) it diminishes it's value. At least give it some value so that you can up-sell it - like the club are doing this year with the £20 family ticket. It also helps stem the club cash hemmorage. Honestly, Peter Deakin would be turning in his grave.

I go around the market all over the place mopping up free introductory offers and very rarely convert them into pay deals once they expire.

And yes, I have evidence that I cannot share with you. I know practically every marketer in every SL club. Give them a call if you like, their names and numbers are on club websites. It's really very logical as HKB, in his inimitable and succinct style sums up far more eloquently than I ever could (thanks!)

This aside, I'm pleased with the fact that you couldn't come back on anything else Penguin, it must mean that my logic is getting through in other areas of my post...?

Sundays are terrible.

The free junior ticket (for RL players) has been in place at an NRL level for at least 20 years, I know for a fact that it works.

AFL have a token $3 ticket (more for accounting purposes).

The thing is, when the club held a vote on the KO time, Saturday was the most popular option. It is not as if the club unilaterally decided to change it. It frustrates me that this is still a bigger issue than the seating.

Poorlytoe within your response you have spoken on behalf of-

[ievery Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL &
because I play in it and I speak to 100's of people in it every week[/i

You are clearly well connected.

Having watched London RL for 15 years and Warrington RL for 20+ years, having played at a decent level, reffing up until last season in the RLC/London league, plus coaching, setting up a team playing in the London league long before the RLC....... I believe I also have a general understanding of RL. I dont speak on behalf of anyone more just what I have learnt and witnessed over the years.

Have a look at the average age of a London RL fan on Sat or Sun(even Thur v the French) and tell me they are playing age. Do the same at the HJ stadium..... We are looking for supporters to turn up and watch, not players. There probably isnt a player in the Southern/ London leagues including the RLC divisions that does not know Quins RL exists. We are targeting new audiences including families. I read somewhere that up to 40% of fans are female.

The community game in the south has never been stronger. I set a team up and played in the London league 20 years ago when there were only 10 teams in the whole of the South of England. Look what there is now.

[iCan't you see that the biggest argument for building a community based RL club is based on the fact that NO other SL club plays games over the top of their community clubs fixtures. None. Nada.[/i No I cant. Go to Warrington and you will see lots of low level RL being played on a Sunday the day the town team plays.

The statements I threw back at you are statements made by the club regarding attendances and players attending. Are you suggesting they not telling the truth?

[iI don't expect a lot of sympathy for the community game on these boards[/i Who gives a flip about sympathy- This is a tough game. Did you feel sorry for Mauri when he got smacked by Bailey last week. Toughen up softy! I suspect you are a winger or as Barry Mac said during last nights commentary, muscly Touch Judges!!

Do you gel your hair!!

[iThis too might be stuck record[/i- Correct

Why don't you play 1st half saturday 2nd half sunday then you're all happy?

We dont generally come out for the second half as can be seen by plenty of our results in the recent past!!