So what would you say are feasible reasons for our reaching the lofty heights of nearly being there, and also for the dramatic collapse to our present position.

There has to be reasons for it, Myself I was never as carried away with the style of play we showed in our seasons of limited success, We seemed to me much as we always are , Some decent games, an odd super game here and there, and a lot of miserable stuff.

Still wins are all that matter to some, as they freely admit, but that is another story.

What would you say has gone wrong for PA to change things from a winning side to a losing one. I have no inside info like some people seem to have, but internal upset ( as it has been hinted ) could well be a major factor.

Most people start to trot out all the old stuff about injuries , bad Ref's, bad luck, even worse supporters, all the stuff that every other team suffers from just like we do, but there has to be more to it than that.

The exact same thing has happened at Leeds, and they have fallen from a far greater height than we have, Granted the players they lost all at once may have had a bigger effect that the two we lost, but I don't personally believe the loss of a couple of players should really drag a team from top to very bottom.

One of the most feasible reasons I have heard , is that Sinfield was far more important and influential on the team than B Mac, which would seem to contradict my thoughts, and it crossed my mind that if there is a rift between PA and D Brough ( as I have seen suggested ) that could account for some of it, I'm not saying there is a problem with them ( as I said, I have no inside info ) but there are one or two things happening that make you think there could be.

The strong rumors that Brough is set to leave ( that just wont go away ) the signing of Brierley for no apparent reason ( replacement for DB ? ) Probably just me putting 2+2 and getting 5.

My self I just think That PA is not good enough as a S league coach ( just my opinion ) I think when N Brown was here he improved some of our players to a massive extent before everything went Pear shaped , I think PA has lived on that to a big degree, A lot of our wins in these glory season were based far more on individual players performing really well than the team playing a style of game that was blowing teams away, Didn't we have 5/6 internationals then.

For me they all started to go backwards after PA took over, I wont list them all but Cudjo was a perfect example, he went badly backwards for quite some time, Happily he regained his form , starting in the games after the split last season and by and large has kept it going which has also had a very beneficial effect on McGilvrey's game.

Those are my thoughts by and large, I would be interested to hear what you think has gone so badly wrong .

missed our chance for silverware in those years i feel

the new league structure might make it harder for us to compete with the big spenders now though...

leeds are getting worse too

leeds may come in for grix to replace hardaker???

ferres and mullally done a great job for us

Does a coach make a team? Perhaps, perhaps not. Brian smith did less well at Wakey than at Bradford and less well than Chester- who was poor at KR.
McDermott has gone from triple winning to wooden spoon.
Radford has gone from zero to hero.
Tony Smith has gone from hero to zero to hero and repeat.....

We had mal Reilly, van de velde and John Kear- all considered good coaches- non could get wins at hudds....

All that has a ring of sense about it jools, But when do you make a move ? when we are in the championship, You can't just tow on with things that aren't working just because others have, or are failing at other clubs. Darrell Powel has not taken one backward step since he took over at Fev , who are only just coming round from losing him, And at Cas he has done a great job with a lesser squad than many have to work with. This just proves there are coaches that can do it.

I don't quite know why some people feel the need to defend PA whatever he does, when he leaves the Giants he will get another job, he wont be on the dole, nobody dislikes him, they just think he is not doing the job, and never getting out of the bottom two this season would tend to back that up. If the unthinkable happens and we get relegated , it will be two late.

When did T Smith go to Zero ?

When did TS go to zero? Just ask the Warrington fans - several times during his tenure they've called for his head.
TS took over from Daryl Powell - who had failed to win anything with a Leeds side who won silverware with TS in his first year and then kept winning, DP then went to union where his team was relegated.....

aye remember hull fc fans desperate to get rid of radford!

I personal don't remember much dissatisfaction with T Smith at Wolves, However I wont dispute it if you say there was some. They certainly seem happy enough with him now.

Don't think D Powell did a full 2 seasons at Leeds as coach, in his first job before he went to Union, and what he did in Union matters not one bit to me , or many other people either I would think.
What I said was he did a great job at Fev, which he did, and so far he's doing the same at Cas , You don't appear impressed.

Powell wasn't at Leeds very long- but TS was there for less than a year and won silverware with the same squad. He did a good job at championship level. You are impressed by what he's done at Cas- which is what? So far he's done less than PA has with hudds....

With a lot less resources and they play attractive rugby

Cas 2014 6th
2015. 5th
2016. 6th so far.

Cas have got better under Powell we have got worse year on year under Anderson.

Fact

The Wire fans were calling for TS to go last season. They'd lost a raft of players to transfers/retirement and were struggling to find cohesion.

PA - 'Small squad plus numerous injuries has meant the players haven't been able to have been 'rolled around' this season' resulting in Friday's display.Facts or excuses?

fact

throw in the unforseen circumstances with ferres too

but giving robbo a deal and still having a small squad was poor management, some say its thewlis that makes some of those decisions though

looks like they are getting their act together now though with signings of brierley, ikahihifo and symonds? ormsby for 2017.. some coming earlier than planned due to the predicament me find ourselves in