That bits ridiculously optimistic - the second bit makes more sense.

Why is it ridiculously optimistic Vastman?

Look at the actual results last season, the Giants were a handful of minutes off top 6 and lost due to awful conditioning and coaching


And as I said elsewhere- we win our 2 games v Wakey and we finish 8th, when was the last time we didn't take points off Wakey in a season - that's how bad it was

Roberts and Mason.

Wakefield looked better than us last season so probably a little harsh you picked out our fixtures against them. Could argue we got some rare points back against Warrington.

With their recruitment and squad depth I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us twice next season too.

From last season the players need to improve their attitude aswell. Conditioning and coaching was far from the only thing wrong with us.

New season will be here fast. Fresh start and no excuses. Fingers crossed we do better and beat our goals.

You could argue we lost quite a few games because we just switched off at crucial times towards the end. How many games did we lose by a converted score? 8 in the normal season in fact. I didn't see a great deal to the fitness issue many have mentioned. The guy that was scapegoated early on is still at the club so can't have been that bad, I appreciate another guy has come in with some great experience in rugby but we weren't getting hammered every game were we. The awful conditioning tag I just don't buy, wheres the evidence?

We scored more points and conceded fewer than Wakey

The last time we finished lower than them was 2008 which was also the last time we were out of the top 8

Giants haven't missed top 6 since 2012 when we came 7th

Last time Wakey were top 8 was also 2012 when they were 8th

This was also the last time they took points off us



As for the conditioning- you just gave the evidence
Concentration, mistakes, discipline late on
All factors

That and the team looked blown from game one

Had Wakefield scored fewer and conceded more at the time of the split????

We scored more points and conceded less but lost more games. 2 points is all that matters.

Great history lesson but means nothing if you're a team looking to the future. We've got to play every game like we're expected to lose and have desire and fire in our attitude and performance.
We had it a few years back but somewhere along the way, we played like we'd already won.

the previous conditioner has left the club.

hubys injuries didnt help with him going backwards!

as for players that have improved the last 3/4 years

mcgillvary
cudjoe
lawrence
leeming
mason
roberts
taai

Not forgetting the mature wine that is Danny Brough !

Mason and Roberts same as northernsoul said, i will concede, They are both young lads and IMO they have improved simply because they have started to get some game time, for various reasons, Fair enough.

Mcgillvary I said maybe he was my one who could be better.
Ironcally Cudjo improved somewhat last season, In fact from the playoff's the season before, Probably why Gerry scored more tries, He is still a good player but no way is he the player he was 3/4 years ago hence he lost his International place.

Lawrence Has not improved at all, he has improved parts of his game at the expence of other parts. He has put weight on and lost pace, he is excellent in defence and very average in attack, He has become a Head down and run player, which takes little skill.

Leeming, much the same as the other youngsters, He should get his chance this year, but people on here are shouting for a new Hooker and they are not wanting a back up for Leeming, it's the other way round. If he had improved significantly we wouldn't be desperate to get another would we.

Taai, IMO has just got to what he should always have been, when he came here he was like a rolly polly, once he got that off his game improved true, but it could hardly do any other from where he was starting.

Someone mentioned Brough. Brough has not improved to me, He has managed to keep a good level under very poor circumstances ( same for all of them really ) He has been good at every club he has played at, right back to his York days, He is still the best player at the club IMO, but also he has a tendency to stand out for obvious reasons, but he has certainly not got better under the last coach, I think he will have been less affected by him than some simply because of his off the cuff style.

All that said ,It's all just my opinion, and it don't mean everybody else is wrong, I shall be very disappointed if some of them don't improve under RS, We did finish bottom so it's hard to see improvements anywhere to me. Like I said JMO.

Cant understand your last sentence, why is it hard to see improvements anywhere? I do hope Mr Stone has a different attitude...

Sorry jumper, that wasn't very clear. I was meaning it was hard for me to see improvements under the last coaches reign.

I am hoping to see much improvement under RS.

you asked the question who has improved and gave you my answer, you think its only jerry... id say the ones i have listed have improved at the giants, will just go round in circles if we start going on about each player.