Got to also factor in stuff like confidence, when the players are playing well stuff comes off, players are not as cautious, a few of us were saying on Friday the players looked scared - not just of the opposition but of each other and themselves, scared of making mistakes which inevitably leads to more being made.

Saying that i cannot nor will try and defend some of the pathetic attempts at tackling i saw, science will tell you that if someone has 10-15 metres to run in they will pick up speed meaning they are going to be faster than you when you are stood still waiting for them and then have the speed and power to get past you when all you do to try and stop them is to try and grab a hold of their shirt, you will simply not stop anyone doing that,as it proves time and again.

Attack wise we're not too far off with the amount of points we are scoring, Cas apart most teams are around 100-150 points scored (we're on 124, there's 3 worse than us) but defensively we are terrible, surely every professional rugby league player knows how to tackle it's a basic of the game, so why are they not doing it? they know they HAVE to do it so i don't accept this is a coaching problem as players shouldn't need telling they have to tackle.

Why are we so soft in defence? that is our downfall in my eyes, sort that out and confidence will rise leading to players playing with less tension and hopefully an all round improvement in performance.

A lot of sense in that DAZ, the problem is what is going to change it, we waited all last season for things to change and they just never did, The strange thing is 3/4 games last year we played like a top of the league side then just went straight back to rubbish.
It's surprising how many people you talk to who say, They need relegating so they can start afresh, I'm inclined to that view myself. When you look where us and Leeds were last year and then look at Leeds now, while we are still bumping along.
As some body has said Hetherington told them straight, you have a month or face the consequences, There is a whole world of difference in the clubs and it's not just about them having more money. Warrington are poor at the moment, but you can put money on them doing whatever it takes to sort it, They wont just sit around wringing their hands and whinging about injuries

Remember Leeds are where they are now by NOT being relegated. That's the last thing we want as there is no guarantee you'll get back up to SL - unless people are saying they would be happy just to be a good championship club. Which I wouldn't.

There is plenty of time to get this fixed but only if someone fires a few rockets up a few arrises NOW.

Our defensive line speed has been shocking for a long long time - if you are not prepared to challenge the attack by getting in their faces you might as well pack it in now.

Injuries and confidence are no excuse for what we are seeing in defence. I can go to watch any of the age groups at Newsome and see more commitment.

I take your point but, We were also not relegated and despite a lot of talk about not wanting it again, we are as bad if not worse.

I don't particularly want to see us relegated, I just see the viewpoint that it may be the only way for us to get rid of all the dead wood, Problem with that is that we would just go and buy in more of the same, if history is anything to go by.

The alternative at the moment seems to be just to make the numbers up in S league. I agree with you about our line speed and also the effort put in when we finally trundle up there, but there is a hell of a lot more wrong than that and at the moment like most people i just don't see what is going to change anything. R S has not had long that's true, but do you see any signs that things are going to change. I live in hope of course.

Just as a matter of interest , Who do you see as being the person to fire these few rockets, I don't think there's a person in the club who's capable, I think if there had been he would have fired some last season rather that loading Championship players in the side.

if relegated Wouldn't we just be left with dead wood whilst any promising green shoots would be off elsewhere?
The only reason (most) players come to play for us is we offer them more money than anyone else.

jools thats the problem . we are paying very average players as if they are full internationals to do well in this game you need a good C E O who can get the most out of the cap

And a coach who can get the most out of the players, We have neither it seems, So who is going to make any change.

The buck ultimately stops with Ken Davy. He needs to do a 'Gary Hetherington'.

Agree completely.

Either that or the players need to 'do a Hull'.

I think DAZ, as TBC has suggested a bit of encouragement is needed to bring that about.

The players looked totally shot after the Cas game, especially Jerry who was last to leave the field. If that embarrassing defeat does not inspire much better from the team and the individuals then not sure what will. Perhaps a KD rocket or the players "doing a Hull" is absolutely what is needed - something needs to happen to shake things up.

As for RS we need to give him time. He needs a full season to be fair. Remember how many Hull fans wanted Radford out then they went on to great things. My frustration with things currently as with many others is with our team efforts to get a quick PTB in attack, and our line speed in defence. We are getting bullied and dominated which has to change if we have any chance of making progress.

Success for me this year will be making the top 8 - finishing the year in the middle 8 but avoiding the MPG would be acceptable as a last option. I really would fear for us in that MPG against whoever.

Devon RS i think as run out of time is not just the result its the performance . there seems no motivastion the basics are not there . thats down to him and his coaching team no matter who bad the recrutment has been we should be see something but we are not. looks like middle 8 again with RS we could be down

Great isn't it when the world of twitter know who is in the 19 man squad before players - I think a little bit of an improvement in communication with your staff might inspire a few to work better for you. At 17.30 2 I know of hadn't been contacted, so there are probably more. I hope they have told at least 17 before the match

So are the two you know of playing or not playing?