Waste of time trying to tell some people on here the facts. They will still tell you black is white.

Dickenson and Liam Johnson- only signed up in 2014. By that time both King brothers were already at Warrington- tell me more "facts" ....
Still doesn't change the fact that we simply don't have the money in Our academy to develop all the youngsters and give all our youngsters professional terms. Sad but true. our scouts are volunteers who dont get paid. For whatever reason they weren't given contracts. We have Josh Johnson and Nathan Mason of a similar age who WERE given contracts- so maybe it's more about looking at what they already had and making a choice based On what they need. Dickinson and Liam Johnson are both younger than George and so will be coming through at a different time.

Here's another fact for you, Liam and Tyler got full time deals as first years, and we're year below George, josh Johnson natty mason, pete aspinall and Jack Miller were all year above George and got full time deals, only person in George's year who went full time was jake Connor, George played with both Tyler and Liam while in the academy he left in 2015 and finished the last few months of u19's at Warrington, if you want to dispute it then please do but it wasn't down to money and it wasn't down to scouting it was down to two people not wanting him at the club

Correction Liam is 2 years below George, Tyler was same year as Toby

Think you've lost a few years of your life somewhere dj hudds. George and Toby were promoted to WARRINGTONS full time squad early in 2014 after serving in their academy- so he couldn't have left Giants in 2015. More facts?

You know what forget it, you are always right, I cringe when I see your posts about what you know, you can't be told the truth as in your head your version is right, I was there so I know how it went down, last I'll ever post on here

Quote: djhudds "You know what forget it, you are always right, I cringe when I see your posts about what you know, you can't be told the truth as in your head your version is right, I was there so I know how it went down, last I'll ever post on here'" It's not MY version though. It's about looking for evidence. Something I do. You made certain claims I looked for evidence of those claims, but found evidence that dispute your claims. You've claimed as fact George left in 2015- I found evidence via press release that Warrington promoted George to their first team at the beginning of 2014. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... eorge-king dated March 2014 You claimed George was upset that Johnson and Dickenson had been given full time contracts when he himself hadn't- I found evidence that those two were promoted to our first team a year AFTER George had left. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... -young-duo dated May 2014 after George was promoted to wires side. I'm not denying George was upset about not being given a chance- he's made comments in interview having a dig. He said it's unfair some clubs spend on overseas a players instead of investing in their academy and that clubs should be MADE to spend a fixed amount of money on their academies. I can see that from his personal point of view. But it's a rather naive comment as if our club doesn't invest in the first team we wouldn't be in SL and would have even less money to invest in developing young players. In an ideal world we'd have 10,000 a week as Warrington do and so have the money to spend- we don't we have half that- so we have half as much to spend. I suppose it's a natural reaction to be bitter if you feel you miss out but as I've said- We can't give them ALL contracts. Perhaps if Mason and JJ hadn't have been given contracts he would have. I know of parents who have kids in our academy. Some praise it really highly, others not so much. I guess it all depends on whether you've been given a contract as to how well you think you have been treated...

Quote: djhudds "You know what forget it, you are always right, I cringe when I see your posts about what you know, you can't be told the truth as in your head your version is right, I was there so I know how it went down, last I'll ever post on here'" It's not MY version though. It's about looking for evidence. Something I do. You made certain claims I looked for evidence of those claims, but found evidence that dispute your claims. You've claimed as fact George left in 2015- I found evidence via press release that Warrington promoted George to their first team at the beginning of 2014. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... eorge-king dated March 2014 You claimed George was upset that Johnson and Dickenson had been given full time contracts when he himself hadn't- I found evidence that those two were promoted to our first team a year AFTER George had left. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... -young-duo dated May 2014 after George was promoted to wires side. I'm not denying George was upset about not being given a chance- he's made comments in interview having a dig. He said it's unfair some clubs spend on overseas a players instead of investing in their academy and that clubs should be MADE to spend a fixed amount of money on their academies. I can see that from his personal point of view. But it's a rather naive comment as if our club doesn't invest in the first team we wouldn't be in SL and would have even less money to invest in developing young players. In an ideal world we'd have 10,000 a week as Warrington do and so have the money to spend- we don't we have half that- so we have half as much to spend. I suppose it's a natural reaction to be bitter if you feel you miss out but as I've said- We can't give them ALL contracts. Perhaps if Mason and JJ hadn't have been given contracts he would have. I know of parents who have kids in our academy. Some praise it really highly, others not so much. I guess it all depends on whether you've been given a contract as to how well you think you have been treated...

Not disputing what you're saying but as Jools said, you've got your dates and years mixed up somewhere, Both King brothers were promoted to Warrington's first team squad in 2014 so they can't have been playing in the Giants academy in 2015.

It does come down to money though. There will only be a limited budget available to sign up academy players on full time contracts. This will be a really tough decision for the coacing team and is always going to lead to some disappointed players. What I am sure is the contracts will be given to the players the club think have the best chance of succeeding. This will mean sometimes a player is cut the subsequently makes it at another club. This will happen at every club. Players at that age still have a lot to learn and it will be difficult to judge if a player has what it takes to make a super league player. However I am sure the selection criteria is as fair as it can be.

2014/2015 what difference does it make. The 'Facts' of the matter are that both lads were upon from a great height by Riding, who obviously had issues with them, and Thewlis who held George to ransom, a ransom paid by a father who had, and still has, faith in his boys. I know Andrew and he's a hard working bloke who could ill afford to throw his dosh around, but his foresight has been well and truly vindicated. 'End of'

Why did Riding obviously have issues with them. He clearly thought one of them was not good enough which is a rugby decision which is made with dozens of players each season. The other brother was not offered a full time contract when the club may not have been in a position to offer one. I think as he was still in contract the club were perfectly entitled to ask for the £10k and if Warrington had actually rated him highly enough at the time then surely they would have been willing to pay this sum.

The dates don't matter per se (other than this was some time ago and things have moved on in our academy since those days) they do matter when events that are date linked are being quoted as "facts" by posters.
Despite you using the word "facts" in your own post you have given no "facts" just an opinion. The Kings' parents have the opinion that Riding had issues with them, I would imagine Riding would disagree.
We are all entitled to opinions- I encourage people to give their opinions- its a forum and it's what forums thrive on. As you know I am extremely opinionated, and I will give my opinion voraciously and repeatedly, I don't claim "facts" unless I have substance to back them up. I provide a platform for debate by offering an opinion- and yes will often play devils advocate cause I like heated debate
Parents are funny things- I deal with them all the time and it's amazing how they think that people "have issues" with their children, when really it's not at all personal, but when things are happening to a person it can appear personal. The Giants try to look after their young players, for instance I know two academy players who have had injuries and the parents were full of praise about the way their boys were looked after. They provide education and training outside of RL for those that want to take them up on it. But the Giants are a business they offer people contracts based on their needs, they will probably have more considerations than is this player good enough to be a professional player. They may consider is this person a team player, do they contribute to our club in other ways, (for instance there are certain academy players who you see around the club more than others) are they hard working, do they do as they are asked, do they do more than is asked of them, are they committed to hard work in and out of training, do they fit into our current plans for the future, and very importantly 'do we need a player in this position.' I'd suggest that as Mason and Johnson had been given contracts the previous year this could have been a consideration in the reason for not offering George a contract, if he'd been a year older he may well have got a contract instead of ons of them. Rejection is difficult. It's probably not easy to do the rejecting either but no promises are made about future contracts when a youngster joins.

yes and the giants have been pretty good and getting it right when letting youngsters go, not many have gone on to greater things and made it in sl, kings maybe an exception

next big things like elliot hodgson, tom hemingway, gregg mcnally, fagborun, sheriffe etc etc ..some never go on to be top level