Salford are there on merit that cant be said of Harlequins, Catalan or Celtic.

ah.....But getting there shouldn't be the only focus. You have to contribute to that competition too. Would you not agree that Quins and Cats have done this ? Celtic arguably (putting the player gate saga to one side) was along with Salford the best 2 sides outside SL.

Regarding Salford - there is more to an application than a stadium. I think Salfords ground isn't that bad, its the location that holds them back. If they have another season like this one then you do question whether they should stay in SL.
Merge Salford with Leigh Leigh Centurions Reds.

In short No they got there by the back door not by merit so they shouldnt be there, if we had had a three year grace period then we could have been up there with them, it didnt happen.
Unlevel playing fields are unfair, whats next a team in Dubai just because some rch Oil Sheik wants one and SKY thinks its a good idea?

If franchising was taken to its ideal level yes I would watch a Salford/Leigh combined team in a summer L comp as long as I had a team in Leigh to watch in a winter, comp, not minding if it was in the 2nd tier as long as there was a chance we could get to the top one that would be a proper franchised sport not a 'well we are there now and here we are staying' unfair one, it will never happen just like Leigh will never have a standalone SL team, because of geographical reasons NOT RL playing one.

What does by "merit" or "doing it the right way" actually mean ? Its not the 1980's - nowadays clubs don't have to work that hard anymore if you have a money man or got the dosh or overdraft.
2004 Leigh "did it the right way" ? or did they? Had we not gone up then what would have happened?
Widnes had they beat HKR was "doing it the right way" had they won, but we know what happened next because they lost.
Competing in SL season on season is a lot more difficult than winning a part time competition. Quins and Cats have competed and contributed.
I am not for one minute saying the franchises are perfect, and I think the next round of decisions will determine once and for all if RFL do have bottle to drop clubs that are not contributing to the comp etc.
But lets not pretend the modern game is about doing it the right way as in building long term to be successful. Which I would like to think you don't tho not sure why you do mention the "merit" type situations so much if that is the case.

A lot of good points raised by everyone , IMHO the RFL shot themselves in the foot by introducing franchises , setting out their stalls for the elite division by telling clubs amongst other boxes to tick they must also meet certain stadium criteria to be eligible , how many teams can u list in SL with delapadated old stadiums that get away with the criteria year after year .

Expansion rugby league is doing nothing but weaken our game as a Nation , expansion teams and not grassroot or heartland teams full of Aussies strengthens our national team how ?

Many many points that am sure have been raised time and time again , we are but the speccies, little fish in a big pond , shame most fans opinions fall on deaf ears .

So EVERYTHING in the 00's are great OK, if you don't know what merit means then everything else means nothing.

What if suddenly SKY ordered the Football to franchise a European league yet only allow one club per city, In Liverpool they choose Liverpool FC because of recent history, and in Manchester they choose United because of the same reason and so on and so on throughout Europe.
Would this be fair? I think it would as its a NEW comp but doing it in an exsisting comp is wrong, as for money are you seriously suggesting the backers of Wakey and Cas are richer than AT, yes the club as a whole is but thats because of where they are NOW which is because of where they were 14/15 years ago. If it had happened 27 years ago then we may well be up there, as would a few others and a few who are there now wouldnt be.
Again I ask the question would the French RL allow an English club into their elite (or any of their) league(s)?
Again I make the point if we had been allowed a tghree year grace period would we had survived because that what happened to London and Catalan and is being allowed to happed in Wales, if you think that system is fair that is your business.
As for 2004 of course we did it the right way we got there by being the best club by topping the league AND winning a Grand Final, something London, Catalan and Wales have not done, thats merit.
(and I always thought it was a mistake us going up because we couldn't compete without a grace period)
I 'pretend' nothing todays 'way' is both morally and in justice wrong.

Didn't say everything is "OK". In a perfect world we would have 20 thou modern stadia with sold out signs for a national professional sport with a proper FT tiered system below the top league with P&R. With a even comp where any team before the season starts has a chance to win SL.
We are a million miles away from that. But we are at least very slowly going in the right direction.


Nope. Because the fan in football is more numerous than in RL. Fans would not let it happen. Considering Liverpool actually want to win Premier League more than ever before kind of says the prestiege of this comp is still highly valued. Also backed up with one of biggest TV deals in sport when Premier League TV rights where sold internationally as well as mind boggling money from Sky nationally.
RL fan power backed by the newspapers having nowt better to do stopped the mergers. Difference between football and RL is football fans would have then backed them clubs, but in RL the fans buggered off leaving a lot of clubs struggling.

Who knows. But if the roles was rversed then it would be in their interests to help our game. Just like RFL did everything they could in 30's to support the expansion of the game in France. Had the governing body then decided to lok after themselves there would be no game in France at all.

Of course it would have helped us had we got the 3 years. But what do you want to see P&R from a PT league then given 3 years grace ? How would that actually work when 1 club gets relegated from possibly 3rd bottom ? Its hardly ideal itself. P&R and expansion does not work together. Celtic, Quins, Cats will show why they was put in SL maybe 5-10 years down the line - Quins has been a rocky road but are showing positive signs, and so are Cats. Celtic will be another London and hopefully succeed. If it works don't you think its worth it?

This is not merit - we had poor crowds that season because of the constant disappointment of losing out season after season against a FT SL side. We had a squad of players much better on paper than the rest. Signing up most of best players is not earning it on merit. You earn the tag of merit when you truly build something from hard work, not signing up players on a gamble that we will go up. At the time I thought it was great. The feeling of getting to SL finally and the excitement of beating Haven in such dramatic circumstances is once of my all time fav moments in sport. But looking back, what a gamble had we failed.

So you agree some kind of franchise should be in place with the "3 year grace" comment ? I can't see how having P&R and trying to expand the game and letting some clubs (could be 2 clubs with 3 year grace) would work and would be a joke in itself. If you have to change rules for some clubs for P&R to work then there is something wrong with that system.
But using my own football club as an example - the fully developed, not standing still, national sport that is football. From a club nailed on for relegation - or even going under we are now competing for Europe - all because a whim of one person decided to throw money at us. When we do lift that Premier League trophy in next few years it won't be from mainly hard graft that doing it by "merit" is rewarded with, but because of money. Modern professional sport.

Franchising is bidding for the licence to do so, there was no such thing when SL was introduced so doing it now is laughable in the extreme, as was the so called procedure last time around.

Where do I say I want to see a three year grace period? I gave it as an example.

So by winning a league and a grand final we got promoted IN SPITE of doing so? or by merit? according to my reading of the word thats merit.

It was you who brought finances into the equation so how can you then decry a team buying their way to promotion by winning the league and grand final (even though half or more of that team had actually been with us for years) .

Will the Welsh and france experiment work, well as RL has been a sport in France for years, why should a team still stuffed with Aussie imports be called a success? as for Celtic it has been shown that they cheated their way to (near to) the top, is that acceptable in 'modern pro sport'

All this has been tried since the game first broke away from RU, it hasn't worked since so will it in the future? NO it won't work.
London? dont make me laugh its just another top weekend out for the RFL heirarchy and again something which has failed before, one cup final loss and a couple of top 6 finishes could hardly be called success.

As for 'modern pro sport' thats when my time working at Leigh is done I'll put the 'pro' bit out of my mind and give more of my time and effort to Leigh East, not that I have 'fallen out' with Leigh RFC just with the whole idea of 'pro sport' its corrupt as recent years have shown, and the powers that be seem to allow it.
If people are happy with teams cheating the way to the top, well thats up to them, my own conscience won't allow me to applaud or even condone it.

Those views may well be described as those of a 'flat capper' if so I'll wear it with pride, I call it being a realist.

We have the best sport in the world but in this country (and in Europe) it has never caught on and never will (unfortunately) it is even losing ground to other sports in Australia and mores the pity in New Zealand.

LSV was built for the people of Leigh with a view to promoting Leigh to SL. I cannoot see how allowing Salford to tread the sacred turf will help Leigh get into SL. If Salford want to share then they should approach Swinton or those at Old Trafford. Apart from Leigh Centurions themselves the only SL club to play at LSV should be a merged Leigh Warriors with AT and IM in charge.

If that was the case in a franchised SL played in summer all well and good (but perhaps named Makerfield Warriors) but it will never be, it perhaps should have been with both towns having their own identities in a Winter League or even in tiers below the 'elite or SL' people say that there are not enough good players about but don't players get better when playing with and against good players? (perhaps not the current England squad but you can't win 'em all )

Can you imagine Whiskey Cheeks' reaction to that one?