O/T BNP in Leigh

Quote: Alexs Dad " But am I right in thinking now that you do accept our immigration policy has generated a lot of social problems for the UK? If thats the case then we're getting somewhere. '"

Immigration is a complex thing. We are, essentially, an immigrant nation, and always have been... social questions rising from immigration have been with us for hundreds of years.... Elizabeth 1 commented on the number of 'nigres' in the realm, while Daniel Defoe wrote his satirical poem mocking those who criticise immigration, entitled 'A true-born Englishman', in the early 18th Century.

Mass immigration in the post-war years was instigated to rebuild Britain using Commonwealth labour... that in itself a legacy of British colonial conquest in the preceding 300+ years. Despite the misgivings (scaremongering, race-hate) of the far right, it worked remarkably well. Nobody could seriously doubt the contributions made by the afrocarribean and sub-continental communities to the social, sporting, cultural and political vibrancy of this country.

In recent years, though, we've seen the global rise of militant (Wahabist) Islam, founded and funded by the Saudis, encouraged by us and the USA as a buffer against the Soviet union, developed into nationhood in some places by the breakup of the USSR, and finally turned on us in response to our role in, particularly, the Arab world and Afghanistan. As that trend has manifest itself, its become more and more apparent that militant Islam has its advocates and followers in some of our own communities, even as we have taken on some of those peoples displaced by our actions in Iraq and elsewhere.

At the same time, the EU has expanded to include accession countries in the former Eastern Bloc, and we have extended greater freedoms of movement to people from the accession states than many of our EU partners.

So, a complex picture then, leaving us with issues which are in part a result of our colonial history, in part because of a recent-historic failure to set criteria for integration through immigration, and in part a response to recent political circumstances. Most of the problems have a long and complex history of their own.

IMHO Britain, for a long long time, did not insist upon or do anything to encourage a base level of familiarity with and support for our own cultural norms. We have, for a very long time, provided translation services to immigrants when we should have been providing English lessons, and insisting on a core competency in our language, and base knowledge of our culture, from those choosing to come here.

The irony in many of the complaints about British immigration policy is that most of these issues have now been addressed. It is - now - very hard to get into the UK. You have to take language and socio-cultural exams. You have to have qualifications or skills that are demonstrably in short supply, not just in the UK but anywhere in the EU. Large scale net immigration has prompted a Governmental response, and immigration into the UK from outside the EU is massively reduced on a couple of years ago. The demographic trends that the BNP cite are already in reverse, and the UK is likely to become a net exporter of people over the next few years.

There's a further problem here, one systematically avoided by every government, and again one in direct contravention to Mookachaka's position. Mookachaka said earlier we should promote Christianity. But that's a problem. We allow, even encourage, church schools; the monarch is the head of the C of E, Bishops sit in the Lords as of right. And the spin-off of that is that we permit, even encourage, faith schools of other religions, and allocate a role to religious conviction in social and political life that it should not have.

Even within the Christian community, you end up with protestant and catholic kids growing up in exclusive neighbourhoods and never meeting those from across the tracks. Would the Irish troubles have run for so long if every kid had had to go to the nearest school, regardless of faith? I doubt it. But now, because of the privileged position we have given religion, we have third generation sub-continental kids going to Muslim schools, learning the Koran in class, speaking their familial languages in school and at home. This is just plain wrong... it's divisive and it’s problematic, building up insular communities excluded from, and antagonistic to, the mainstream.

As far as EU accession immigration is concerned, the economic indicators suggest that this has been of net benefit to the UK. Put simply, the Poles, Slovaks and Romanians who have come here have paid more in taxes, and done more in terms of contribution to the GDP, than they have taken out in healthcare, schooling and other services. This makes sense when you think about it... people in their 20s and 30s are net contributors, they work and pay taxes, while post-retirement age people pay less and use more services, particularly healthcare and pensions. The EU immigrants are, generally, young fit workers, not old ailing retirees.

Asylum seekers are a different issue... this country takes its share of those seeking a safe haven from persecution. They are not generously treated... they get a roof and food, but they aren't allowed to work and get subsistence-level support, lower than benefits. This leads to some working illegally on the fringes of the black economy, and to all being branded as a drain on our resources... possibly true, but a result of the prohibitions on their being allowed to do anything else.

Some people try to take advantage of the asylum system... claims take too long to process, but when those not entitled to asylum work their way through the system, they are deported. For some, who have travelled through safe countries to reach the UK, they too are sent back to the land first passage... but again, this doesn't happen quickly enough and is not as well managed and policed as it should be.

Immigration has brought tremendous benefits to the UK... our unprecedented decade of continuous growth is in large part as a result of our flexibility of labour markets. But some issues have been allowed to go unmonitored and unmetered, and now we are in recession, suddenly jobs are scarce, people are struggling, the system is under tremendous strain, and the issues of immigration then come to the fore.

We need to deal more quickly with asylum claims, and chuck out failed asylum seekers much more quickly. This is improving, but its still not there. We need to be much more bullish with our EU and international partners in ensuring they, too, take up their share of refugees and asylum seekers.

We do have two big problems that most of Europe doesn't have: we have a huge colonial legacy, meaning millions of people around the world have relatives living in Britain; and our language is the second-language of choice all over the world. But that's no damn excuse, and Poland, Slovenia, Italy, and so on, can all take on the responsibilities which go together with the privileges of EU membership.

The accession immigrants are looking after themselves.. the pound is worth less, the opportunities in Eastern Europe are greater now, and many people are just going home. Those that choose to stay are those who have chosen to become integrated into our society... these people are not, and will not, be a problem to us, any more than Simon Svabic and Sean Penkywicz are.

As I've said, it is now extremely difficult to legally enter the UK for work. That system is in place, and is sound, but it is relatively new, and it will take a while before we really see the change.

We do have some issues with illegals… but that’s not an immigration issue per se, it’s a law enforcement issue. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are here illegally. Its not our immigration policies that are at fault, it’s the policing of them. Round them up, send them back, tighten the borders. Do it more quickly and more effectively.

The biggest problem though, still, is the integration of the communities that are already here. My solution would be, dis-establish the church, ban religious content from the curriculum, strip to a miminum translation services and replace them with English lessons, get rid of the leaflets on benefit claiming in Gujarati and Hungarian. None of this will make a difference overnight. All of it will benefit our sense of national identity and community in the long run. I'd also add in to that... let's have an English parliament, and open a real discussion on what makes us proud of our nation and our heritage.

We also need to explain - to everyone, whether they have been here for generations or months - what is expected of them, what they must do to be part of our society, and what they can receive in return. It needs to be absolutely transparent what is necessary to be regarded a citizen of this great country... and in turn, then, what you can expect and by what criteria your needs will be judged....

...in other words, if you ARE British, legally and as of right, you should get a helping hand if you need it on the basis of priority according to your need... you shouldn't jump the queue either because you're grandparents lived here, or because you've just got here... if you're a Brit, you get the same treatment as every other Brit, and if you're not a Brit, or you're not prepared to take on the responsibilities of Britons to all communities within Britain, then you're welcome to leave any time (regardless of whether you came here or were born here, regardless of colour or religion).