| FORUMS > Leigh Leopards > 2 year ban? |
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| Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "I guess Leigh's sports lawyer is asking those type of questions but by the sounds of it Penky's is the most set in stone case of the lot hence why it has now become public.'"
What 'lot' of cases is this?
The story in LE makes it sounds anything but set in stone. |
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| Quote: Michael_Ward "What 'lot' of cases is this?
The story in LE makes it sounds anything but set in stone.'"
Michael, perhaps GFB is referring to what might be happening at other clubs?  |
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Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Tip of the iceberg.
The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?'"
www.amazon.co.uk/The-Secret-Race ... 0593071735
Explains how to microdose EPO, HGH and assorted steroids during the night time hours and be pretty confident of passing a test the following day when testers are allowed to visit, even in an era of biological passports. And that's in a sport far more under the spotlight than RL is.
Being caught is far from inevitable and those who are more often than not screwed up their regimen.
It's probably unfair to assume guilt on the part of everyone. But nobody's doing themselves any favours if they allow themselves to be surprised by the guilt of anyone at all, in any sport or on any team. |
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Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Tip of the iceberg.
The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?'"
www.amazon.co.uk/The-Secret-Race ... 0593071735
Explains how to microdose EPO, HGH and assorted steroids during the night time hours and be pretty confident of passing a test the following day when testers are allowed to visit, even in an era of biological passports. And that's in a sport far more under the spotlight than RL is.
Being caught is far from inevitable and those who are more often than not screwed up their regimen.
It's probably unfair to assume guilt on the part of everyone. But nobody's doing themselves any favours if they allow themselves to be surprised by the guilt of anyone at all, in any sport or on any team. | |
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| Quote: Michael_Ward "What 'lot' of cases is this?
The story in LE makes it sounds anything but set in stone.'"
Which bit is not set in stone? Both A and B samples were tested positive when tested for GHRP6.
I wonder what would happen in cases like this if a group of players were advised it were ok to take what they thought were 'safe' supplements that just happened to contain banned substances that were very hard to pick up with a normal drugs test. |
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Up front, before my rant
If I've interpreted the LE report correctly, the A sample was tested 3 times before a positive result was achieved. That seems unusual. Then there's the suggestion that procedure wasn't followed properly with the B sample, which also seems unusual.
Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "I wonder what would happen in cases like this if a group of players were advised it were ok to take what they thought were 'safe' supplements that just happened to contain banned substances that were very hard to pick up with a normal drugs test.'"
Easy - if they test positive they each get banned for 2 years.
Take an over the counter medicine that contains a banned substance or causes the body to synthesise a banned substance - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.
If an unknown medical condition causes body hormone levels to change in a way that suggests PEDs have been used - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.
Should the courts imprison someone on as little evidence as the anti-doping agencies have when they ban, there would be serious issues for our legal system.
Drug cheating is a problem in sport, pretending that we can accurately test for those drugs is a much bigger problem. There are small numbers of innocent athletes getting bans and plenty of cheats facing no punishment.
The anti-doping system is a sham.
A study suggests - "An athlete doping continuously and tested 12 times per year still has only a one in three chance of being caught, and that’s if the tests are random and the athlete takes no evasive countermeasures.
"But athletes often know when they are going to be tested and there are evasion techniques for random, out-of-competition tests too, as anyone who’s read Tyler Hamilton’s book knows."
road.cc/content/news/89328-anti- ... says-study
I can't say I know what the answer to PEDs is, but I think the current system fails to prove anything with many of it's positive results and returns mostly negative results even for those that are cheating. |
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Up front, before my rant
If I've interpreted the LE report correctly, the A sample was tested 3 times before a positive result was achieved. That seems unusual. Then there's the suggestion that procedure wasn't followed properly with the B sample, which also seems unusual.
Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "I wonder what would happen in cases like this if a group of players were advised it were ok to take what they thought were 'safe' supplements that just happened to contain banned substances that were very hard to pick up with a normal drugs test.'"
Easy - if they test positive they each get banned for 2 years.
Take an over the counter medicine that contains a banned substance or causes the body to synthesise a banned substance - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.
If an unknown medical condition causes body hormone levels to change in a way that suggests PEDs have been used - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.
Should the courts imprison someone on as little evidence as the anti-doping agencies have when they ban, there would be serious issues for our legal system.
Drug cheating is a problem in sport, pretending that we can accurately test for those drugs is a much bigger problem. There are small numbers of innocent athletes getting bans and plenty of cheats facing no punishment.
The anti-doping system is a sham.
A study suggests - "An athlete doping continuously and tested 12 times per year still has only a one in three chance of being caught, and that’s if the tests are random and the athlete takes no evasive countermeasures.
"But athletes often know when they are going to be tested and there are evasion techniques for random, out-of-competition tests too, as anyone who’s read Tyler Hamilton’s book knows."
road.cc/content/news/89328-anti- ... says-study
I can't say I know what the answer to PEDs is, but I think the current system fails to prove anything with many of it's positive results and returns mostly negative results even for those that are cheating. | |
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RL is the sport that you would gain most from by taking PEDs over probably any other sport. HGH/Testo for muscle gain, EPO for endurance. I would suggest it is rife, as it is in most sports, wendyball included. There also has to be an appetite to catch the drug takers, which most governing bodies don't seem too keen on either, look at athletics at the moment, or cycling in the past covering up failed tests, or tennis where some players seem to have 6 month injury breaks.
This current issue is no surprise at all.
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| Quote: Cripesginger "Given penky, the weird barlow story and rumours might it not be best for leigh to go public and publish the number of drugs tests they have had this year and their results? They should not let one bad apple taint a clean hard working squad.'"
Ryan B talked about this on the last Radio Manchester Thur RL hour.
Sure he said circa 12 times which is the extreme high end where others will be around 4.
I thought Ryan spoke well as he basically said (no exact quotes) he had no problem with being tested as he didn't want drug cheats in his sport although it can be disruptive as if they turn up whatever plans you had for the day had to be dropped or re-planned until the testers had finished.
Said its not always the easiest thing to suddenly do (urinate in a bottle with a tester watching)especially if just after training or a match (would imagine the players aren't allowed to drink anything until a sample is provided).
In Penkys case a few things don't add up, surely if the designated method of looking at samples is to get rid of the sample after a certain period then its strange they kept it and surely against whatever standards the testers are required by law to work to.
If however they know that a drug may not show in a reading for some time down the line then that's a great thing but surely they should be shouting that from the rooftops as it will deter cheats.
All a bit strange. |
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Serious questions cos I have no idea. Are the sellers and producers of these performance enhancing substances breaking any laws ?
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Its a good question? Also if you suffer from say mild asthma which often ends up being prescribed steroids.What are they saying you can't play.
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He's been done before! he should be on the ball in terms of what can and cant be taken. Lets move on!
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| Quote: jonnymatt "He's been done before! he should be on the ball in terms of what can and cant be taken. Lets move on!'"
If any athlete can remember 50% of the products that contain prohibited substances or substances that cause the synthesis of prohibited substances then I'd be exceptionally impressed.
Also, they better check the site every day!
Quote: jonnymatt "It is important to note that the Prohibited List is updated annually and published every January. However, substances can be added to the list at any time, so make sure you check it regularly.'"
You can be banned today for something that wasn't banned yesterday!
UKAD have a programme for supplements called Informed-Sport which is designed to ensure athletes can get supplements that are free from banned substances. But should one of those products be contaminated by the manufacturer or distributor, and you fail a test because of it, you're going to get a ban.
There's too many banned products, too many ways to fail tests and on top of that we're hardly catching any of the 'cheaters'.
We're also preventing our athletes from using products that can ensure long term recovery from injuries - if players were allowed to supplement the natural levels of human growth hormone in their systems then they would recover from injury more quickly and completely and we'd likely have fewer players with busted bodies at the end of they careers. But it's a banned substance because it can help build more muscle mass.
Lets face it, you can be banned for having your own unsupplemented blood injected in to you (if you were training at altitude at the time it was taken) which is all kinds of crazy. |
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| Quote: Michael_Ward "If any athlete can remember 50% of the products that contain prohibited substances or substances that cause the synthesis of prohibited substances then I'd be exceptionally impressed.
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Most of the time its not up to the players though. Thats especially at pro and semi pro level. The days of players just taking remedies or supplements willy nilly are long since gone. If Penky is not cheating or does not think he is cheating then I would put good money on whatever he has taken or applied has been okayed by somebody at his club. |
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| Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Most of the time its not up to the players though. Thats especially at pro and semi pro level. The days of players just taking remedies or supplements willy nilly are long since gone. If Penky is not cheating or does not think he is cheating then I would put good money on whatever he has taken or applied has been okayed by somebody at his club.'"
As I pointed out in my previous post, there is a UK based scheme called Informed-Sport which lists supplements verified by testing as clear of banned substances.
However, if you don't have access to a chemical analysis lab & a very secure method of product delivery, any compliant product can be tainted and become non-compliant. The responsibility still falls on the athlete.
If, as an individual, you want to guarantee avoiding banned substances then you're going to need to grow your own food, manufacture your own supplements (or avoid using them) and have a chemical analysis kit with the ability to use it effectively. You should avoid accepting any medical assistance that requires the use of any substance at all.
All of this should prevent positive tests - but you better hope that your body doesn't begin to malfunction in any way that raises levels of hormones, etc. associated with doping. They'll have you for that too!
Of course, I'm taking this to the extremes - the reality is that the authorities do little enough testing to make it look as if they're taking the issue seriously when they know full well that the testing process is inadequate, that dopers are achieving negative test results and that (potentially) innocent athletes are getting snared with false or unfair positive results.
The current system is and has been a farce for a very long time. Until the public realise that this is not a black and white issue then nothing will change. |
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Hmmm, that last sentence in the mr. chairman's post is a bit slanderous isn't it?
Who knows what the future may bring with regards testing and other players, but rumours have been circulating all season and during that time before the "worst kept secret" broke on Monday, these and other boards do themselves no favours when even our own fans engage in the nudge, nudge, wink, wink approach.
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One of the saddest things I've seen this season involved Sean.
Ironically it was after we had beaten Salford in the CC and as I was on my way home I caught sight on Penky, outside the Hilton Park (Our House), pint in hand.
Of course the rumours were in full effect then and given their clarification it now adds to the pathos of the image of a man who'd given a lot to get the club to where is was on the pitch but he himself was to blame for the situation he found himself in - possibly the lonliest man in Leigh at that point.
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