Ok, fair enough, lets have a look...

Current Clubs In Super League XIV (with number of years 'service' out of 15)

Bulls (15)
Cas (12)
Catalans (5)
Crusaders (3)
Harlequins (15)
Huddersfield (12)
Hull (11)
HKR (5)
Leeds (15)
Salford (12)
Saints (15)
Wakey (13)
Wire (15)
Wigan (15)

We have 6 clubs with 100% participation, another 5 with 10 years or more, and 3 more clubs with between 3 and 5 years.

So, 40% of the clubs have a 100% 15 year record, and 80% of them have been there for more than 10 years.

Personally I reckon this shows that <quote> [i'by and large the majority of SL has had the benefit of big money for a generation now'[/i and the foundations for it/them were indeed laid 15 years ago, but if you have anything to prove otherwise, feel free.

AD - What are you saying here. I mean you criticize that franchises haven't worked, which I assume you include the main reason of franchises and that is having 3 years to build etc etc. But considering its only 3 years in, you now for seemingly convenience sake mention clubs have somehow been guaranteed SL afterall before franchises without risk of relegation.
This is one of many reasons I can't be doing with this forum anymore.

.......sadly missed already........

Lighten up mate. When we all start thinking and posting the same thing it will be a sorry day.

Fight your corner oh and congrats 2 City on sneakin a draw today.

The ' off ' season

OK, this really isn't difficult.

Firstly, I see more downside to upside to the first 3 year period. Bad bits....moving goalposts, the Celtic farce, many clubs still employing foreigners en-masse, lethargy/reduced interest among fans in the Championship, spiralling debts, and promises of new grounds not happening to name a few. Benefits? I'm struggling, honestly.

Secondly, I have not said clubs had been guaranteed SL before the franchises, you've just made that bit up. What I hear are people trying to convince us that nothing can be built in 3 years and the franchise thing will take a few years to settle down. Why? What I am saying is 80% of the clubs have already been in SL for more than 10 years so what on earth have they been doing all this time?

You also have to consider if you are a franchise club and lose it then you are in going nowhere land for at least 3 seasons.

Daft system as I have been posting since it was introduced. I did say way back then that any club losing a franchise would have a bleak future.

It is counterproductive and a bad idea imo but hey whats new. Is the game better with it or in an even more perilous state because of it ?

Says it all doesn't it ?

I also stated it was ' flawed ' frank , I see P and R as a ' safety valve ' whereas being stuck in SL is akin to a boiler exploding

I don't know how true it is but a Wakey fan has suggested that a serious potential investor in the club has decided not to get involved after a meeting with the RFL , so you would have to consider what he asked ?

Was it " are Wakey guaranteed a licence if I am willing to bankroll them ? " , or was it " will a Championship club be guaranteed a SL spot in 2015 ? "

If it was the former then understandably the RFL are not going to compromise the application process by saying yes and any serious investor would be under no illusions as to Wakeys probable fate

If it was the latter then it would potentially spell real problems for them , and us

If they said scenario 2 Steve then I can't see ANY bankroller staying/getting involved with ANY Championship club, now that really would decimate the Championships.
Now it's allright sitting in an ivory tower saying clubs outside of SL should do AB&C but the RFL are now insisting on having a 'hand' in/'eye' on Championship clubs financial dealings (good or bad? take your pick), and building a Red Hall empire (and on that note I would really like to see how many people actually 'work' for the RFL now compared to say 5 years ago and where does the money come from to pay their salaries).
Why don't the RFL do the honourable thing and say right this is the last time we will have a round of licence applications if your in your in if your out then tough, but ANY SL team going whatsits up will be expelled and replaced with a round of applications from potential Championship clubs and the criteria will be A,B,C,D (etc) and make the points realistic. OR make it a proper franchised sport.
The SL clubs would then perhaps settle down and start to produce home grown talent properly, and stop employing over paid over seas players and the Championship teams wouldn't have to 'go for broke' every year to try and impress, for people like O'Connor, Harrison, and AT can't go on paying out tens of thousands (perhaps even millions) of pounds chasing the dream.
Sorry if this does not impress the promotion and relegation people but it would seem that has now gone never to be discused (at Red Hall) ever again.

I completely agree Fred , in 4 weeks time we enter the next SL licence period as far as the Championship clubs are concerned , and as yet I havent seen or heard of any declaration by the RFL or any club that we know what we are actually playing for as far as the application critiera is concerned

Is there to be a devinate ' promotion ' or not ? , Championship club owners have the right to know this now

They are probably still trying to work out Steve which clubs are going to go bankrupt in 2011, Wakey, Cas, Hull KR and the infamous Crusaders all hang by a thread.

Just on the Celtic Crusaders debate, I wonder what would have happened if they had stayed in the Championship??

Would they have gone bankrupt twice in 2 years?

Would they be awash with overseas players?

Would they be succesful?

If they were to be succesful, would their gates have increased?

and just think, in a promotion and relegation system they may just have 'earned' their way in to SL and further built momentum????

Just a thought.....................

I suppose it would have depended on whether their player scam was found out I suppose Ste

You may get into Superleague 2012 after all.I may put a pound into Wakey, too help with some fresh washing powder for their shirts.