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Quote: CommanderShepard "What club is Rowley going to contact now to try and tap up their hooker.....?'"

Parramatta ? icon_sad.gif

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Quote: CommanderShepard "What club is Rowley going to contact now to try and tap up their hooker.....?'"


Warrington, Micky Higham........ your about 2 months too late

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Tip of the iceberg.

The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?

That leads to more sinister questions and you would guess the legal wrangling is down to the fact that the B sample should have been destroyed when the first sample came back negative. Theres obviously discussions still going on behind the scenes but it does beg the question how many more players are using it and either have got off because the first tests do not show it and nothing more has been thought of it or because the B sample has been destroyed and they are using that as a legal loophole. It will be interesting what comes of the other players involved in this.

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Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Tip of the iceberg.

The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?

That leads to more sinister questions and you would guess the legal wrangling is down to the fact that the B sample should have been destroyed when the first sample came back negative. Theres obviously discussions still going on behind the scenes but it does beg the question how many more players are using it and either have got off because the first tests do not show it and nothing more has been thought of it or because the B sample has been destroyed and they are using that as a legal loophole. It will be interesting what comes of the other players involved in this.'"


Also some alternate questions; Where the tests performed and analysed correctly? If procedure wasn't followed with destruction of the sample, what other procedure was not followed and has it impacted either negative or positive results?

In most scientific processes, inconsistent results tend to suggest that something is wrong with the methodology or the process is not well understood.

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Quote: Michael_Ward "Also some alternate questions; Where the tests performed and analysed correctly? If procedure wasn't followed with destruction of the sample, what other procedure was not followed and has it impacted either negative or positive results?

In most scientific processes, inconsistent results tend to suggest that something is wrong with the methodology or the process is not well understood.'"


I guess Leigh's sports lawyer is asking those type of questions but by the sounds of it Penky's is the most set in stone case of the lot hence why it has now become public.

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Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Tip of the iceberg.

The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?

That leads to more sinister questions and you would guess the legal wrangling is down to the fact that the B sample should have been destroyed when the first sample came back negative. Theres obviously discussions still going on behind the scenes but it does beg the question how many more players are using it and either have got off because the first tests do not show it and nothing more has been thought of it or because the B sample has been destroyed and they are using that as a legal loophole. It will be interesting what comes of the other players involved in this.'"


Given penky, the weird barlow story and rumours might it not be best for leigh to go public and publish the number of drugs tests they have had this year and their results? They should not let one bad apple taint a clean hard working squad.

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If true, whilst very dumb of him (to put it mildly) lets hope he has the right support and people around him for the next phase of his life. People will throw stones but if he's banned he needs help to move on.

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Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "I guess Leigh's sports lawyer is asking those type of questions but by the sounds of it Penky's is the most set in stone case of the lot hence why it has now become public.'"


What 'lot' of cases is this?

The story in LE makes it sounds anything but set in stone.

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Quote: Michael_Ward "What 'lot' of cases is this?

The story in LE makes it sounds anything but set in stone.'"


Michael, perhaps GFB is referring to what might be happening at other clubs? icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Tip of the iceberg.

The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?'"


www.amazon.co.uk/The-Secret-Race ... 0593071735

Explains how to microdose EPO, HGH and assorted steroids during the night time hours and be pretty confident of passing a test the following day when testers are allowed to visit, even in an era of biological passports. And that's in a sport far more under the spotlight than RL is.

Being caught is far from inevitable and those who are more often than not screwed up their regimen.

It's probably unfair to assume guilt on the part of everyone. But nobody's doing themselves any favours if they allow themselves to be surprised by the guilt of anyone at all, in any sport or on any team.
Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Tip of the iceberg.

The article opens a massive can of worms. What was Penky taking to stop it been picked up in the first test? What triggered them to send the sample off again for him to get caught for what he has been? Why is that type of growth hormone not picked up by a normal test?'"


www.amazon.co.uk/The-Secret-Race ... 0593071735

Explains how to microdose EPO, HGH and assorted steroids during the night time hours and be pretty confident of passing a test the following day when testers are allowed to visit, even in an era of biological passports. And that's in a sport far more under the spotlight than RL is.

Being caught is far from inevitable and those who are more often than not screwed up their regimen.

It's probably unfair to assume guilt on the part of everyone. But nobody's doing themselves any favours if they allow themselves to be surprised by the guilt of anyone at all, in any sport or on any team.


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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Quote: Michael_Ward "What 'lot' of cases is this?

The story in LE makes it sounds anything but set in stone.'"


Which bit is not set in stone? Both A and B samples were tested positive when tested for GHRP6.

I wonder what would happen in cases like this if a group of players were advised it were ok to take what they thought were 'safe' supplements that just happened to contain banned substances that were very hard to pick up with a normal drugs test.

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Up front, before my rant

If I've interpreted the LE report correctly, the A sample was tested 3 times before a positive result was achieved. That seems unusual. Then there's the suggestion that procedure wasn't followed properly with the B sample, which also seems unusual.

Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "I wonder what would happen in cases like this if a group of players were advised it were ok to take what they thought were 'safe' supplements that just happened to contain banned substances that were very hard to pick up with a normal drugs test.'"


Easy - if they test positive they each get banned for 2 years.

Take an over the counter medicine that contains a banned substance or causes the body to synthesise a banned substance - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.

If an unknown medical condition causes body hormone levels to change in a way that suggests PEDs have been used - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.

Should the courts imprison someone on as little evidence as the anti-doping agencies have when they ban, there would be serious issues for our legal system.

Drug cheating is a problem in sport, pretending that we can accurately test for those drugs is a much bigger problem. There are small numbers of innocent athletes getting bans and plenty of cheats facing no punishment.

The anti-doping system is a sham.

A study suggests - "An athlete doping continuously and tested 12 times per year still has only a one in three chance of being caught, and that’s if the tests are random and the athlete takes no evasive countermeasures.

"But athletes often know when they are going to be tested and there are evasion techniques for random, out-of-competition tests too, as anyone who’s read Tyler Hamilton’s book knows."

road.cc/content/news/89328-anti- ... says-study

I can't say I know what the answer to PEDs is, but I think the current system fails to prove anything with many of it's positive results and returns mostly negative results even for those that are cheating.
Up front, before my rant

If I've interpreted the LE report correctly, the A sample was tested 3 times before a positive result was achieved. That seems unusual. Then there's the suggestion that procedure wasn't followed properly with the B sample, which also seems unusual.

Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "I wonder what would happen in cases like this if a group of players were advised it were ok to take what they thought were 'safe' supplements that just happened to contain banned substances that were very hard to pick up with a normal drugs test.'"


Easy - if they test positive they each get banned for 2 years.

Take an over the counter medicine that contains a banned substance or causes the body to synthesise a banned substance - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.

If an unknown medical condition causes body hormone levels to change in a way that suggests PEDs have been used - if they test positive they get banned for 2 years.

Should the courts imprison someone on as little evidence as the anti-doping agencies have when they ban, there would be serious issues for our legal system.

Drug cheating is a problem in sport, pretending that we can accurately test for those drugs is a much bigger problem. There are small numbers of innocent athletes getting bans and plenty of cheats facing no punishment.

The anti-doping system is a sham.

A study suggests - "An athlete doping continuously and tested 12 times per year still has only a one in three chance of being caught, and that’s if the tests are random and the athlete takes no evasive countermeasures.

"But athletes often know when they are going to be tested and there are evasion techniques for random, out-of-competition tests too, as anyone who’s read Tyler Hamilton’s book knows."

road.cc/content/news/89328-anti- ... says-study

I can't say I know what the answer to PEDs is, but I think the current system fails to prove anything with many of it's positive results and returns mostly negative results even for those that are cheating.


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RL is the sport that you would gain most from by taking PEDs over probably any other sport. HGH/Testo for muscle gain, EPO for endurance. I would suggest it is rife, as it is in most sports, wendyball included. There also has to be an appetite to catch the drug takers, which most governing bodies don't seem too keen on either, look at athletics at the moment, or cycling in the past covering up failed tests, or tennis where some players seem to have 6 month injury breaks.

This current issue is no surprise at all.

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Quote: Cripesginger "Given penky, the weird barlow story and rumours might it not be best for leigh to go public and publish the number of drugs tests they have had this year and their results? They should not let one bad apple taint a clean hard working squad.'"


Ryan B talked about this on the last Radio Manchester Thur RL hour.
Sure he said circa 12 times which is the extreme high end where others will be around 4.
I thought Ryan spoke well as he basically said (no exact quotes) he had no problem with being tested as he didn't want drug cheats in his sport although it can be disruptive as if they turn up whatever plans you had for the day had to be dropped or re-planned until the testers had finished.
Said its not always the easiest thing to suddenly do (urinate in a bottle with a tester watching)especially if just after training or a match (would imagine the players aren't allowed to drink anything until a sample is provided).

In Penkys case a few things don't add up, surely if the designated method of looking at samples is to get rid of the sample after a certain period then its strange they kept it and surely against whatever standards the testers are required by law to work to.
If however they know that a drug may not show in a reading for some time down the line then that's a great thing but surely they should be shouting that from the rooftops as it will deter cheats.
All a bit strange.

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Serious questions cos I have no idea. Are the sellers and producers of these performance enhancing substances breaking any laws ?

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