Well as the club owner you’d like to think he voted in our best interests - and based on recent comments he seems to be getting his enthusiasm back (not sure it ever went away to be honest)

Not convinced about the additional clubs, Toronto have given the game publicity but despite big spending they’ve not exactly set the world on fire. Where are all the extra players going to come from for further expansion, there doesn’t appear to be a player pool on the other side of the Atlantic

I would have voted the same way. As Col says, we haven't enough decent quality players in the UK, to support our British clubs, never mind losing 20 or so, on a long term basis, to every N.American team that is formed. Also, when/if there are a decent number of N.American clubs, they will presumably ditch the Wigan's, Saints, Hulls' etc. from the 'Trans-Atlantic Super League', in favour of a 'North American Conference'. I wonder what will be left of RL in this country, for our 'cream' to return to?

He may have voted with Leigh's interest at heart, (good on him) but I am unconvinced about how/if a foray into North America will benefit our Game. (a bit like how France's venture into British RL has helped their game - not!)

According to RL Express, the only 4 clubs that dissented in regard to the Ottawa and New York proposal were Leigh, Widnes, Rochdale and Hunslet.

I find it incredible that only four clubs can see through this crazy unsustainable madness.
All of the following could be clearly seen and understood even before Toronto were allowed in. The latest proposal just accentuates the stupidity of it all.

1. Travel
- Ottawa is 3,200 miles from Manchester.
- There are no direct flights - options are via Toronto and Frankfurt.
- Total journey time, including airport downtime for a change of flight in Toronto, is 12 hours.
- Include time to and from airports and minimum check-in time requirements and you are talking a total of around 18 hours.
- Time difference (equals player jet lag) - the UK is 5 hours ahead of Ottawa.
- Who is worst affected by the travel and jet lag issues? The answer is - all the other clubs trying to compete fairly in a league that now includes new full time clubs who have stolen a shed load of talent from the UK and Australia (certainly lowering the standard of the teams left in the UK).
- The North American newcomers play blocks of fixtures away and then at home to suit them and without the travel issues faced by visiting and part-time clubs (guys with jobs to go to), having to cope with a return journey in ridiculously short time frames and a double dose of jet lag.

2. Financial Issues
Ottawa say they are covering the expenses for visiting clubs for an unspecified period.
What does that mean?
Are they planning to stop these payments at a time that suits them?
Will they be allowed to get away with theToronto model where they provide 3rd Rate Student Accommodation and training facilities 35 miles away from the accommodation location.
Will they be arranging for the visiting team to be returned to Glasgow Airport (like last year) and then facing a 200 mile coach journey (an extra 4 hours to the journey time - just for a laugh!).

3. Player Welfare
What about the part-time player who picks up a serious injury in Ottawa and finishes up in hospital over there with his wife and family 3,200 miles away?
What about the player who picks up a head injury - who will decide if he is fit to fly home immediately after the game?
What are the medical and injury insurance arrangements?

4. Player Recruitment
A further massive recruitment drive for players (offering full time contracts) by Ottawa and New York will inevitably cause further decline in the playing standards of the U.K. based teams in our leagues.
Supporters of the clubs of the Championship and League One will have their dream of promotion completely removed - causing further decline in the game in the U.K.

5. Due Diligence
Do we all feel safe that the RFL will be the ones conducting the Due Diligence?
Did the RFL conduct the Due Diligence on Toronto ?

6. Outcome
In my view - an unsustainable mess !!
All is not lost !!
The RFL will be standing by to sort it all out.

Are we witnessing the ongoing demise of the greatest team sport on the planet ?
It feels to me that the clubs who have just voted by an astounding majority of 19 to 4 are simply turkeys voting for Christmas.
Wake up guys, 'Smell the Coffee' before it is all too late.

I wonder why the Super League clubs have taken control of their own destiny - could it be that they at last realise the RFL have spent the last forty years (the time that I have been watching the game) in complete and abject failure in their ability to market our great game. It feels to me as if the RFL are currently just unloading their marketing responsibilities to those residing in North America.

There would have been a player pool in the UK if, money had been invested in all clubs to support an Academy and reserve team setup. As we all know money has been spent on overseas players for short-term success - understandable not wanting to be relegated from SL. These young lads lose interest and are lost to the game. Something needs doing to support player levels beneath the 1st team instead of DR. I'm all for new teams and expansion but not at the expense of established UK teams. It's a tricky one. On the one hand, they bring exposure to RL. On the other, they dilute our already weak player pool.

Absolutely brilliantly put PTB. I was just scratching the surface!

Some very useful thoughts and comments. So just picking up on a few comments.

@ColD “Toronto have given the game publicity”

I’d go with that.

“there doesn’t appear to be a player pool on the other side of the Atlantic”

Mr Perez stating or using that point to his advantage with the Ottawa proposal, saying it will be built using the community and if it takes 5-10 years to see SL so be it. Not sure his investors would go along with that.
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@Alan (a bit like how France's venture into British RL has helped their game - not!)

Originally 4000 participants, now stands at 40000. Although the international scene is still very weak.
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@PlayThe Ball “I find it incredible that only four clubs can see through this crazy unsustainable madness.”

Does it not become unsustainable when the investment is lost?

“1. Travel”

I haven’t really seen anyone complaining about “jet lag”..

“5. Due Diligence”

Surely it must be based not only on financial criteria this time round but development? Not sure New York meet that in their proposal even with their blue chip sponsors.

“could it be that they at last realise the RFL have spent the last forty years (the time that I have been watching the game) in complete and abject failure in their ability to market our great game.”

Personally I think the product SL which did sell the game and now doesn’t is the demise. The game requires major investment to survive and that won’t come from the best interest of the Club/s.
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@ WYSIWYG “There would have been a player pool in the UK if, money had been invested in all clubs to support an Academy and reserve team setup.”

As above, it all requires money and investment. Where is that money coming from?
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The RFL are obviously looking at investment into the game. Right now the only option available is across the pond.

Maybe I'm a lone voice on this forum, however I would have voted for both clubs without any hesitation. British RL has such a myopic attitude in such scenarios that could very likely be the source of the death of the game in the UK (take the exclusion of Toronto, Toulose and (even though eventually recinded) Catalans from this year's Challenge Cup - an enormous 'own goal' by British RL). Given the choice between self interest and global expansion in the game, there's only one clear choice to take.

I wouldn't compare Toronto to Toulouse. If any Club gains merit from me it's Toulouse, they have used their own home grown players with quota additions which all use. Toronto are no further on in that department. Many will say they've only been here two minutes, but now are on the verge of SL (if accepted).

Toulouse shows the meaning of expansion, Toronto have a long way to go to get on their level regardless of which league either end up in next season.

Has everybody forgot that Toronto signed around 2/3rds of our 2015 team. I’m sure it's got something to do with this.

Can't see Ottawa and New York doing that! I'm a self-confessed Luddite, and I think it will all end in tears, with British RL being worse off at the end of it.

Anyway, it's good to see a debate (other than B&B's entertaining forecast comp.) back on this forum!

I don't think RFL has much choice. NY, Ottawa, Toronto, Catalans, Toulouse. SKY have to come up with a lot more money in the next SL contract than the ridiculous one negotiated last time (A 7 years pittance, wasn't it?!) with these cities in the competition. Like it or not, these cities bring a lot more clout to the negotiating table. It's the way SL has to go to become a worldwide product. They would have been fools to turn them down. I fear mergers are going to surface again if the lesser clubs want to be part of it. I'm certain there will be talks of a Manchester club for SL within the next few years. Imagine Manchester v New York - SKY would love that, they hold the purse strings and will be pushing for these kind of fixtures. It isn't good for us diehards but it's the way it will eventually evolve.

The mission failed in doing so and Leigh went to promised land. I remember well.

I agree, with them in, carries more fire power for the future TV contract. But who is to say Ottawa and New York cant give a TV contract that covers the lower tiers which outweighs the Sky contract. If they wait Sky will stitch them up again for £300k. Useless money as it always has been.

Back Chat Thursday 2nd May

Rugby League World editor Matt Shaw hosts the discussion with Wakefied Trinity CEO Michael Carter, Leigh Centurions owner Derek Beaumont and player agent Dave Peet.

Main points regarding our Club? No reserve squad, as the emphasis is on creating a first grade team to return to SL. He is also in a position to challenge Toronto should he decide or his advisors decide to do so.