Reality is here.

I rest my case M'Lord

in leigh though pal

One last piece. I don't know who to vote for. No-one seems to address the problems this country seems to face. One thing I wouldnt do though is call anyone stupid or racist for voting BNP. I'd call them peed off!!!!!

A quick surf of the net reveals that estimates of the financial cost of immigration to each family is betwen £50 - £350 depending on whose figures you choose to use.

To put it in perspective the Bank bailouts have currently cost each family around £20,000 and is probably set to rise still further.

The BNP is a racist party - it's well documented!! It is indeed a bedrock of their manifesto, which - over recent years - they have removed from their own website. They did this so they can maintain a veneer of credibility and respectability. They then 'spin' the message by pushing 'the rights of British people being undermined by outsiders'. They then use the word 'immigrant' as a catch-all term....and people who have not thought it through properly start to do the same. So before you know it people start telling tales about "[uAll[/u these immigrants....coming over here....contributing nothing....getting everything for free.....stealing jobs from locals, etc...", and before you know it usually rational, tolerant people are buying into the idea that the BNP are the only party that are 'listening to our concerns and coming up with solutions' Once people are into this mindset then the BNP are winning - and once they have a foot-hold, who knows where it will lead?? Extremist - usually xenophobic - views tend to carry more credence during times of extreme economic uncertainty - its what lead to the rise of facism in the 1920/30's......and we all know where that lead!!

While I have every sympathy for someone in the construction industry who has found themselves out of work - and hearing that thousands of Eastern European economic migrants have been employed in their place, but unfortunately this is not the fault of the people who taken these jobs. Blame the global capitalist system that deems 'cheapest' as best choice!!
Those who moan about 'these immigrants' who work for less than minimum wage - pushing the indigenous population out of work, etc.....
The minimum wage was brought in to protect the vulnerable, and low -paid. If people are not getting it - then blame the bosses for this illegal practice, and report them.
To say that everytime you go into the town-centre - during the day - it is full of 'immigrants', and somehow use this to prove that none of them work - so must all be on benefits, is a ridiculous argument. Why can these people not be shift workers? 'Letting their kids urinate in the street' - I've got news for you, I've seen plenty of 'locally born' women encourage their kids to do the same!!

Getting back to your original point:

The BNP are a racist party - FACT.
If you vote for this racist party it is for one of two reasons - you are racist, or you are ignorant of the fact that the BNP are a racist party. If this was the case - as it is well documented - you'd have to be pretty stupid to claim that you did not know.
And it is no use to say "well I'm not racist, but i voted BNP because I agree with their policy on XYZ - but I don't agree with all their policies" - if you vote for them, and they get in, you have voted in the full package, not just the bits you agree with!!
Ergo - two types of people vote BNP:
Racists
The stupid, and ignorant.

Where did I point out that was the 'immigrants' fault that they are here?
If there are so many people out of work, searching for work and sometimes 1000 people applying for one job(and are overqualified) why do we need more workers in this country. A member of my family has already downgraded the jobs he will go for. And before the months out will probably do it again. My younger sister has already been told not to bother searching for jobs in her chosen profession when she qualifies because there are people of 35 years of experience who can't get a job.Is bringing in more migrants going to solve this? I dont think the answer is more than a 2 letter word. Will my waiting time to see a specialist go down if more migrants turn up?? Where you the one saying that a capitalist government is wrong when everything was going right? Everyone with a set of eyeballs knows what is wrong. Bringing in 15 low paid workers from oversees to do what 10/15 friends of mine would do is not the answer.

[uRacism[/u

1.Is it racist to say that immigrants should not be allowed to caome to my country?

No it is common sense. Hospitals, housing, schools, roads etc. are all at breaking point because of the size of our countryand the woeful neglect of not just this Government but since the late 70's early eighties. Will having a load of immigrants solve this problem? Nope
Is it racist to put up a Union Flag on my property?


No.No.No.
Is it racist to express outrage at a returning regiment from Iraq or Afghanistan?

No.No.No.
But according to our law it is inciting racial hatred. Where I to go into a predominantly muslim area and wear placards stating that Islam was against the human rights of women I know I wouldnt be a free person for long.


My last point is this.

Voting the BNP is not racist or stupid. If you put it like that then :To vote for Labour would mean that you support going to Iraq and cleaning up for them whilst turning a blind eye to Zimbabwe. To supporting the rebuilding of Afghanistan whilst not helping African Countries. To vote Tory would mean that you agreed with the first Iraq war. You do not vote for someone or something because you agree with every policy they have. You vote for them because you believe they have the best policies for you, your family and your country. I have voted Labour. That is it. No-one else ever. I don't agree with Gordon Browns policies on taxes. But I agree with going into Afghanistan. Its about the best possible choice and finally I now realise that the main 2 (and I will be looking at Lib Dems more closely now) are wrong. Maybe I will vote for BNP. Probably not. Doesn't mean i'm racist or stupid.

Top post

Sorry pal it doesn't stack up.

You can justifiably vote for a party yet still disagree with some of its policies.

However, you can't justifiably vote for a party if you disagree with its core values. Particularly if they are extreme values.

Unless that is you are ignorant of those values.

Racist or ignorant it is then. (And ignorant does not mean stupid, though it is generally used synonymously these days)

Do you know what the core value of any party bar the BNP is these days? I'd say they arnt so far apart. I know you can see on websites and so forth but what one says and one does are 2 different things. There is always a new policy coming out for something which even if its godd will still get slagged by everyone else. Politics. Thats the problem. Amateurs trying to run this good country of ours.

I think you can vote for a party if you disagree with its core values. What if you disagree with every parties core values? Not likely. Maybe you have a bee in your bonnet about one such thing. Which may be your point about ignorance. I dont know. I can see why people are leaning towards the BNP. I wouldnt now because I have read ALL there policies and the mission statement not on the website. And took it in eventually. My original point was that you are not racist if you vote BNP. Maybe fed up. Ethnic minorities are now looking at them. Are they racist? I think its because whatever Government has been charge over my lifetime has been an abject failure. At just about everything.

Anyways. Thanks for the debate, its good to disgaree and get things off ones chest. Going to celebrate St Patricks day with a lovely pint of Guinness. Will I celebrate St Georges day? Don't even know when it is.....

All I know is there a far too many people in this country playing the system, immigrant or otherwise and those of us who work hard to earn a living are paying for it all and it takes the pi@s.

I don't know how to resolve it but something needs to change because the country is going to the dogs.