Thing is with wrench he was a 2nd row converting to , who then got thrown in on the wing in a disruptive underperformed side and then did his acl, so that basically removed 10 months of development and experience. However people are putting him on a pedestal because they don't like matautia as if he's the great answer, he hasn't been great since coming back,

He scored a try at castleford away that both of our centres could only dream about.

And was pretty poor in defence iirc, looking like a stranger

Just to say, I'm not against the lad, I want him to succeed, if we had him ashton and dufty in the side, that would be unreal.

But there's a lot of revisionist thinking en masse about Toby King and how we had to keep hold of him cos the club would be poor at recruitment which turned into we overpaid him, why did we keep him the club is poor at recruitment

As pointed out Matautia has been mickey poor in defence ever since he has arrived without the excuse of being young or recovering from an ACL. I don’t think anyone is saying he is the next Mal Meninga but he’s definitely been deserving of a starting berth ahead of Matautia and yes he would’ve made lots of mistakes etc but that’s the journey the top sides put their youngsters through.

Wrench may not be the answer but he’s a very gifted rugby player that needs persevering with.

He’s also scored (in the 6 games he’s played) more tries and made more clean breaks than Matautia.

I think what is true about Wrench and King is that neither is as good or as bad as their supporters or detractors make out. I'd be happy if our back line next year was Dufty, Thewlis, Wrench, King, Ashton.

I'm very happy (relieved) about Dwyer.

I really wish we could keep Mikaele, it's surely no coincidence our upturn in form has coincided with his return.

Vaughan and Mikaele starting props next year with Bullock, Harrison, Kasiano as first choice interchange and a back row of Currie, Fitzgibbon, Nicholson, Philbin looks good.

Williams is obviously class.

Mikaele isn’t going to hang around for a full season unfortunately. If we can get Tom Burgess instead that would soften the blow.

Well in his Wire days ...

Pros
1. He could collect a cross field kick and score.

Cons
1. He lacked pace.
2. He didn't create opportunities for his winger.
3. His defensive positioning was all over the place, often shooting out of the line.
4. He insisted on training with his dog.
5. He's a little forgetful of essential ID documents.

I didn’t say anything about him getting. a new contract. My point was that we have in the past overestimated how much “top” teams would want our younger players which has in the past led us to give them contracts above and beyond their worth. The fear of King going to Saints being the ultimate example.

6. The rest of the squad now have to hold their pee in, all the way home along the M62, just to prevent somebody going AWOL at Hartshead Moor services?

Maybe Wrench is being seen as a winger these days? If he was playing wing in the reserves that seems plausible…?

To be fair to Toby King he can also offload.

And as he shares the top three cons with Mata'utia I'd call it even.

I'd like to see Wrench stay and I saw his future more on the wing, when Thewlis moves to FB in 25 whether he would be content to hang around providing bench cover is another thing.

Wrench has played(out of position)on the wing plenty of times for us. He's still looked good and scored tries.