Hasn't it moved twice? At one point wasn't it very early in the season, with the final before the season had really started? The reason it was moved then was because it felt like a pre-season thing rather than a do or die cup comp.

I think you're right. It's a hard balancing act to be fair, if it's too close to the end of season championship playoffs there are arguments about it being unfair to the teams (and fans' finances) involved, if it's too early in the season it's allegedly lost some credibility for being 'pre season mickey mouse'. The arguments about the cup losing it's magic & so on do get a wry smile from me though, I have a book at home about the '54 cup final replay, and news article clippings of the time have people making the same arguments as I read on rlfans these days

There's no argument at all there. We had a poor season in 1985-6 until we won our last 8 matches, finished 5th, and then won the Premiership play-off. We weren't saying how unjust that was. We all accepted the rules at the start of the season. just accept that we didn't quite make it.

It's wrong, you guys were the best team in super league this year. I have said this for years, if you are SL champions you are SL champions, end of, there then should be a play off as we do with this current format so there is a chance to win 3 major trophys, the CC, SL and play off.

In 2009 Tony Smith turned Warringtons fortunes on its head by leading them to challenge cup glory. Now, Imagine the uproar then if we'd continued the run of form, made it to 8th place and go on and win the grand final.
Highly unlikely I know, but not impossible.

- agrees

I can guarantee you the only people who would be in uproar would be the fans of the teams expecting to win it.

You lot are only struggling with the concept because you failed. It's harsh, but it's true.

Once you win a Grand Final, and you will soon, you will change your mind about it. The distain for the concept comes largely from Warrington always being on the periphery of it.

There's a similar thread on the Wigan board the difference is that that one is mostly about how those teams topping the league isn't given enough of an advantage (in that the play off system should be changed so that they do). However this one seems more bitter because you didn't make it; I'm sure that sucks after a successful season but you can only play to the current rules not moan because you fell at the last hurdle.

At least Wigan had two bites of the cherry, Warrington only lost one game.

yeah it doesnt seem right but we all started the season playing by the same rules and knowing whats required

You are correct we had a great end to the season in 85/86 and we all celebrated. Although winning the old premiership came third to the championship and challenge cup. Halifax were rightly champions that year due to winning the league, we didn't get the right to call ourselves champions just because we had won the premiership unlike winning the GF . Halifax still received the glory of winnng the league and became champions, whereas we unfortunately get a simple plate without the prestige that came with winning the league.

Makes you think why put the 100% effort in all year to have a glorious league run, when teams from lower down can peak for the back end of the season and undo all the good work in one game.
b.tw I am not saying teams don't give 100% anyway.

It's a tough old game at times and we all knew the rules at the start of the season I suppose.

Leeds fell victim to the play-off system in 2005, the same year Saints suffered their misfortune. That season we imploded after an incident on a trip to Perpignan to play Harlequins, and were never the same after that.

That year we were beaten by Bradford, who became the first team to win from outside the top 2, but you wouldn't have heard me complaining, because they timed their run brilliantly (and went over the salary cap, but we'll gloss over that ). We steamrollered everyone at the start of that season, but deserved everything we got at the end. Nothing.

The play-offs allow for misfortune to occur during the season and seasons not be finished almost before they started. A first past the post system effectively means that if the first half of your season is ruined by injury, then your season is over. Leeds struggled to come to terms with Brian McDermott's new methods at the start of this season, started the season without Peacock and McGuire, and suffered numerous injuries early on. But what they have done is ironed out those issues in time for the play-offs, peaked at the right time, and proved they are good enough to compete with the top 4.

Leeds have shown over they years that they have the know-how to win these big games, when it really matters. Warrington froze on Friday when they needed to show the character of Champions. As Tony Smith alluded to, they learnt some harsh lessons.

Essentially Warrington are a perenial losers club who somehow managed to top the Super League table this year which raised expectations through the roof.

This of course made our inevitable defeat when it mattered hurt more than it normally does.

In 30 years time we'll probably win our first Challenge Cup in 31 years and be dreaming of topping the table for the first same in 30 years and winning the championship for the first time in 86 years.

During that time we will have played in precisely zero Grand Finals.

The sooner we just get used to the idea the easier our continuing failures will be to take.

Jes Saddened you've been busier on the Warrington thread than the Saints one recently. This would not have anything to do with your predictions for the playoffs would it. Or are you just here stoking the fires whilst the going is good.