Didn't say it was Agar's fault.The title of the thread is loyalty + that's why I made the Monas point.This guy would have had the respect of all the players which if you go by rumour mill Agar has not got.

Smith I believe has said the criticism of Agar is unwarranted hinting all is well, no sign of him around last night though.

As for loyalty we are all behind the club just commenting on our observations, the players self criticise after they feel they have had a below performance Mick Monas would sulk for a week after a defeat, is it that Smith is too loyal? possibly, as others have stated we feel the half back position has not been sorted, yet to Smith he had Myler, O'Brien, Ratchford with Bridge in the mix so to him where's the problem, that I think is the problem not facing up to the fact for whatever reason they are collectively not doing the business.

Welcome to sport. In any country. any league, and at any level.

I don't think people are out of order because they believe that some of the players who won things years ago are now past their best and shouldn't be retained on sentiment.

I do however believe Tony Smith is still the right person for Warrington and will correct the wrongs at the end of the year.

The Way I look at it is that Smithy WILL sort it out. Look at Leeds in 04/05 had a few years of pain . I would quite happily have 2/3 years of pain for 5/6 years of glory


Ad when it comes to loyalty , If you don't wont to support Wire in the pain we don't want ya.

The loyalty of the fan to the club should be unswerving and without question. Many of the supporters of the club will, like me, have spent god-forsaken afternoons in weather that would send a dog scurrying underneath the kitchen table, wondering if they would ever see Wires win [ione[/i challenge cup final in their liftetimes, let alone three. So we should be eternally grateful to TS for that golden period in the club history.

However. that period is gone. The old maxim in sport about only being as good as your last game is partly true. We cannot present TS and certain members of the squad with endless get out of jail free cards on the basis of events that happened two seasons and more ago. That way lies stagnation then decline.

Compare and contrast two hugely successful British football managers of (relatively) recent years, Alex Ferguson & Brian Clough. Ferguson achieved success over an unprecedented period by constantly reviewing, appraising and changing his squads and did not allow sentiment or loyalty to get in the way. Brian Clough achieved remarkable success at Derby & Forest, before he went into decline. His decision-making, recruitment and tactics became questionable and led to the the club itself going into decline, something they have never recovered from. Forest stuck with him purely out of loyalty, and the stubborn belief that he could recapture former glories. Granted, Clough's decline was largely due to alcoholism but it's a valid comparison.

There's a point where blind loyalty, and ignorance to an individuals failings, becomes terminal and we may be approaching that point with several individuals at the club. They may have served us well in the past, but are no longer doing so and indeed are holding us back.

No. Cannot afford it.

I have said the North Stand tickets are very expensive for a Cup Game. And I rarely attend now. Correct. If that means to you I cannot make the post I made then just ignore it. But as I've been watching Wire long enough, on and off, for 30 years I guess I feel I can make the post. Yes I'm in a bit of a lull at the moment as I'm not enjoying my Rugby, but I will always be loyal to Wire.

I guess I am calling for a bit of perspective, loyalty and a bit of decency. Rather than rabid knee jerking and toys out of the pram. We are beginning to sound like Man City fans. 30 years of nothing, then whining when we don't win all the time.

Totally accept your point and Im not advocating endless get of jail free cards. I advocating a little more patience than 1/2 of one bad season for a coach who had delivered so much. I'm not advocating being sentimental about players either - just that I'd like their demise and exit from the side to be handled with a little more grace than "get shut he's gash"

I think that Smith was unable to attract the big HB he may have wanted for the season after Briers and he backed his young players to step up (good that a coach backs his youngsters). However this does not seem to have worked for whatever reason and so Smith has, in hindsight, made a mistake. I don't think him airing this in the press would be productive. I would rather like to think they are trying to resolve out of the glare of the media and forums.

Imagine him trotting out the lines "I had hoped GOB, Patton or Myler would have stepped up but they have been found wanting so I am looking to get rid and replace them". No that's not the way.

He's made some mistakes and I'm sure he will learn from them.

Has it crossed your mind that he may have considered Monaghan to be under qualified for an assistant role at a top professional RL side seeing as he had never done it before ? Or did you want to appoint him on sentiment ?

As for Monas I wonder how many loyal fans wanting him on the coaching staff as "a legend" were one of the ones that berated him when he joined and demanded we "get rid as his knees are shot" before his last superb season.

Now you are saying you have no respect for Smith, after all we achieved with him. That just astounds me.

Best fans in the league?

The thing Ferguson had was having faith in his youth,a treble that will never be repeated by anyone in my time. The fans wanted his head early doors,but in the end it was Ferguson who knew his time had expired.

Your kidding me. He is stubborn as he is mild mannered.
He refuses to move Ratchford from FB when the most important position in a team is HB.

"We've been scouring the world looking for half-backs," said Smith, 48.
"I don't want to make my half-backs feel bad about it, but we understand that we haven't been consistent enough in those sort of positions this year."

Not a huge difference. The implication is similar in any case.

I agree, we do need to show loyalty. I think TS needs to extend Bridge's contract for next year. OK, Bridge is a bit crocked, but he has been a very loyal player for us over the years and how better to show our appreciation than to offer him another two year contract ?