Harrison is a quality player, I would like to see him at prop or second row personally. I think grix is our best 13 we have been very unfortunate that he has been injured so often this season.

Sinfield: 33
O'loughlin: 31

The lock you describe is dying as a species, those two are just the remaining survivors - and one rarely plays there any more. Both are more known for their leadership qualities over fabulous lock work as well imo.

The game evolves, props are more skilful with the ball and sometimes act as first receiver (the James graham model) hookers and halfbacks are more interchangeable now (Rob Burrow for example) and defensive structures can't afford to support weak links in the middle. Hence the new type of lock.

That's a very interesting perspective, and undoubtedly there is a lot of truth in it. [iHowever[/i, O'Loughlin is in my opinion the most skillful player in SL by a country mile. Even at 70% fitness, which he seems to permanently be these days, he has the handling, vision and intelligence to choose the right pass, to the right player and unlock any defence in the world. Given a choice of any other SL player to come to us, he'd be a shortlist of one for me.

The only other English backrower I see going around at the moment with those skills, and the potential to be as influential, as good? Step forward Ben Currie.

I've just got home and I'm in far too foul a mood to get into all this. But I must say, anyone who believes Sinfield plays LF is an imbecile, ignore the number on his jersey!

When is it your year?lol

Have I been watching the same player for the past decade?

Given the rhetorical nature of your question, I assume you beg to differ. Go on then I could do with a laugh, name me a better SL loose forward from the last decade.

Agree entirely. However, ask yourself this: if SOL had been coming through as a kid today, would he of had the time and opportunity to develop into the player he is at lock? I don't think so, coaches seem desperate to mitigate the risk of throwing a kid into the deep end in "strike" position for fear they'll mess up, as a result they never fully master the craft - it's why we are still struggling massively in certain areas for the England squad.

It's something Saints struggle with massively, all our young halves who come through play wing, centre, fullback etc and never have the chance to adopt the crucial 7 position for their own. Instead they become first choice in other areas that are less "risky".

On O'Loughlin you have to give Brian Noble credit as he persevered with him when he was a bit of a joke figure amongst most clubs fans: when Wigan were garbage in the mid 2000s SOL was seen as the most overrated young player in the game. Remember when Noble would include him in a GB squad, these forums went in to meltdown "if he played for any club other than Wigan.....???".

The game moves forward but the fans don't.

Hence a lot of coaches get criticised because they don't conform to the predictable old patterns that the fans grew up comfortable with.

The irony is, if any old school coach tried to come back in to the game now, Maurice Bamford, Alex Murphy etc the fans would probably reject them as they would say "the game has moved on"....

So you're saying you'd rather have a Harrison / LMS 13 than Sculthorpe and o'loughlin in today's game ??

Even Gallen who is probably the worlds best in the prop at 13 role can't offer what these 2 did in their pomp.

I agree with what you're saying about skilful ball handling props , but that is limited. I'm still yet to see a prop throw a 20 yard cut out pass or possess a kicking game the likes of the 13's I have mentioned can do

spot on this workrate was massive yesterday. If he is not the answer at 13 fair enough but his commitment yesterday was outstanding