Hock isn't an enforcer, he's a dirty undisciplined liability who, when actually available for selection, would lose us more games than he won for us, through conceding penalties, going looking for opposition players and sin-binnings.

Despite his reputation as a dirty player, Les Boyd didn't miss many Wires games through suspension. He let the opposition know who was in charge, established the platform, never took a backward step but knew his responsibilites as a leader. He was also a far better player than Hock will ever be.

What we need is for the RFL to crack down on situations that are causing players serious injury. Whether it is technique, tactics or something more sinister, certain clubs, whose proud history deserves better, are getting a deserved reputation for cheap shots and taking players out of the game.

The answer isn't for every team to descend to that level, it is for the RFL to start dishing out some [iserious[/i punishments.

Hock certainly quietened up Westwood when he last faced him v Wigan.

Perhaps, but would you want Ben Evans, James Laithwaite, Ben Currie etc. training alongside and influenced by aforementioned evolution-dodger? We might as well send them for a seasons-long loan with Strangeways Prison XIII.

lol, not particularly but Hock is a great player.
Moran was after him big time when he was 20.

Completely agree with this, how the players go out to intentionally injure fellow professionals is beyond comprehension!

In the words of Ian Paisley Never Never Never. I said fifty per cent temper fifty per cent mental not 100 per cent mental.
Hock is an unpredictable liability both inside and outside the club. I don't think contracts and clauses mean anything to him.
Fans have the right to pillory and mock the referee but as far as players are concerned, the authority and physical integrity of the ref should be sacrosanct. Any departure from this principle and we are staring into the abyss.
Over the years I have watched a myriad of real hard men dishing out and taking some terrible punishment but they have all had the utmost respect for the ref. This clown has disrespected that hallowed convention on two occasions. Personally I would have banned him sine die but he would probably go to a tribunal and plead that he was dropped on his head at birth or some other laughable reason and get reinstated.

I assume by "certain clubs" you're referring to Warrington.

Ben Westwood's punch in first couple of minutes of GF, or Paul Wood's throwing punches at Pettyborne. You're right, if the refs / RFL didn't bottle the first bad incidents in these type of games, perhaps frustrations wouldn't boil over in other players on the pitch.

Our stand off plays the GF with one eye shut, but Wigan only won because of their “poophouse tactics”. You couldn’t make it up. Oh hang, you all just did.

Were Westwood/ Wood instructed to give a bit of biff out by Saint Tony Smith? No of course they weren’t, neither are we, but as some suggest, if you want to mix it with us – Wood started it all, then it’s fair game if you ask me.

I don’t agree with McIllorum’s dirty play, yes he is dirty and I can admit that, but the Wood incident turned what was a great game into a bit of niggle and then the red mist descended on to McIllorum who then became a law unto himself.

McIllorum had nothing to do with the Wood incident and his dirty tactics were not on Wood but an innocent party in Laithwaite and Waterhouse, deliberately trying to injure fellow professionals is completely different to a bit of biff in the middle of the park between two players!

Mickey Mack is just as much a liability as Hock . Personally i would prefer us to extend Waterhouse's contract ....the bloke has done nothing wrong but gets criticised week in week out.

I agree with every word you say but history teaches us that the RFL has consistently failed for decades and decades to properly address the issue. Indeed I would say that there is a substantial proportion of people both within the governance of the game and among the fans who see 'The Biff' as an essential part of the game, to be controlled not eradicated. There seems to be a dichotomy between the rules and accepted practice which psychopaths and their coaches have capitalised on.
Faced with this situation what do you do?

The RFL cannot see how the depletion of squads through serious & lengthy injuries negatively affects the product on the field . The RFL are trying to market an entertainment product & teams need to be at their best to provide that & ,due to financial constraints & other influences, back up squads don't have the quality they used to have. The RFL are shooting themselves in the foot by not protecting the players by making sure refereeing is up to scratch.

Nowt wrong with a bit of biff.
Perhaps we should adopt something from ice hockey.
They get 20 seconds to dish it out.
Lol, make them ware big foam hands too!
Then they get split up and each spend 10 mins for cooling off! No disciplinary.
Now I await the backlash from the purists!

The thing is we have it in us to dish it out a bit. Remember the play off game against Leeds when briers threw a punch at Ablett. That revved up our pack and the intensity lifted. We tried similar against Wigan but we could not quite match their intensity. We were not far off though. When we are in those situations we do miss Grix, Westwood and Harrison. I am sure that Currie England and laithwaite will not be intimidated in the future but maybe it was just a bit too soon, they will learn from that though.

Spot on!

It's the dirty tricks that need sorting out, not the dust-ups (there aren't enough dust-ups).

Have a word with yourself! I think you need to look at both incidents again. I can't seriously believe you think either incident was even noteworthy except in a ''this is a player we hate so lets pretend they were way worse than they actually were'' kind of way. Someone mentioned the Westwood shot on Blake Green earlier. That was far more an attempt to injure a fellow professional. Similarly Woody didn't throw several shots at a man not defending himself in order to 'not injure him'. If you want to aim vitriol in this way at least be prepared to aim it at your own players indiscretions too. That way we might actually give some credence to your points. McIlorum is certainly no saint (pun intended! lol) and on occasion has been worthy of the criticism he received. These incidents, though, were no more or less than happen in virtually every game. In fact a far worse one than the late challenge happened the following night in the Saints?Hudds match. The tackle on Waterhouse didn't even warrant a penalty! Get a grip man!