I completely agree with you that Saints have benefited by having Holbrook for longer.

I remember when they signed Holbrook (who was a very highly respected up and coming coach in the Aus coaching system at the time) we had people on here saying to stick with Smith because "who else is available".

However I don't believe the differences in the two sides can be put down to just that 4 or 5 months longer they have had their new coach. I believe their squad is stronger.

Their centres trounce ours (Naiqama and Percival) and I believe their pack is more effective too. Lachlan Coote is a good player also.

It was a real shame that we failed in out attempt to get Naiqama in the season before Saints got him. I was excited by that prospect. Saints certainly have the edge on us in terms of the 3/4 line up effectiveness. We have good wingers but very average centres that lack pace, as outlined in the stats in my previous posts on assists.

Saints haven't got centres with any pace. Their backs are no better than ours. If roby gets injured they are screwed, same way we will be if anything happens to Clark.

OK.

There is a real difference in the style of the 2 back lines, their wingers are pacier than ours, but ours do a better job bringing the ball out (whether that should be a wingers job is another matter) and both of our wingers are excellent finishers close in. Ratchford and Coote are 2 totally different type of full backs. Centre is an interesting comparison. Percival was the stand out centre last year, but his run across the line has, perhaps, been found out. There other centre seems to be finding form. Goodwin is solid but should be scoring more tries, King a work in progress but more than happy with him. Atkins as alluded to in the other thread is on the wane, but still has something to offer this season. I actually thought he was one of our better players when we played Saints. In the halves we have the one player with the x factor.
Saints definitely have the edge form wise at present, but it isn't time to be handing out any awards just yet.

I'm with Wires71 on the centre issue - Saints' are much better than ours. We are rather quite poor at centre and have been for a while (bar Hiku) and this alone blunts our attack quite considerably. Saints are also not screwed without Roby these days as Smith is going to turn out to be a quality player. They're a good 2-3 tries better than us at the minute but it can change and hopefully it will.

Saints played Catalan recently with Makinson, Percival, LMS, Knowles and Thompson out Injured (can't remember if fages was still out)
They also rested Roby and Coote and still won by 40 points.
Imagine us going up against catalan with Charnley, Goodwin, Ratchford, Daryl Clark, Cooper, Hughes and BMM all out.
I can safely say that it would not be a comfortable win.
Because Saints are playing so well, consistently not just across the season but in games (they don't tend to have a short nap in the second half) they can afford to bring Roby's long term replacement into the team. We are not playing well enough to rest DC for a game to give Danny walker a shot.
The other players need to up the intensity when Hill, Cooper and Clarke are rotated so that the opposition does not get a sniff of blood. At the moment if the opposition can stay within 3 scores of us up to the point that they are rotated they know they are in with a chance.

Great post. I remember we used to dip a bit when Morley went off in his first few seasons. When he came back on at 60mins and we were ahead you just knew we wouldn't lose. We have a more pronounced dip now and lack the certainty on the return. Thing is Hill is still very influential for us despite him not reaching the heights of past. This says more about our prop interchange options than Hill.

You only need to look at tries and assists for the centres of both sides. Saints' are far more threatening. We talk up King like he is a young Gene Miles. But in reality he doesn't have pace or natural centre instinct. He is good at catching high attacking kicks which is our go-to modus operandi for scoring tries. Price doesn't rate Atkins (based on no contract and 2 droppings) and Goodwyn has not found form this season. It's definitely an area we will improve on. Sometimes we just have to realise we dont have the best group of players in the competition. I'd say we are 2nd on merit.

This all conquering saints team have scored a whopping 25 more points than us over 14 rounds. Clearly our attack is absolutely nowhere near as good as theirs.

The other day you asked if I rated Chris Riley. I think King is in the same category as Riley. Good enough to handle SL and be effective and score tries but unlikely to be a player who makes a difference. That probably puts him in the top 5 or 6 of players to have come through our Academy in the past two decades...

Moe we have scored 10 points in the last 2 grand finals and failed to score any points in the last hour of both games. Do you not remember watching the last GFs and wondering where the points were going to come from. Sure we can pile on the points against lesser teams but this thread is about our ability to score against top sides when it matters. It seems there is a split of opinions - you believe we dont have attack quality issues, some do.

The aim should be to improve the team each season. This season we are stronger than last, next season (all being well) we have Gareth Widdop joinining us. This suggests the Club know they need to strengthen and are doing it. What more can they do?

Well that game should put this thread to bed, not a scruffy try from us under immense pressure!

This amazing, slick St.Helens attack is looking unbelievably good tonight. We should sign both their centres!