We will have to agree to disagree on this one

Evans and Lineham were shocking in defence yesterday and apart from an unlucky bounce i am struggling to see what Johnson did wrong in the match and certainly didn't appear to lack self believe or confidence

If your going to start comparing or pulling a player apart then it has to apples for apples,he was behind a tired team yesterday that lacked direction from general Gidley and i thought he coped pretty well,he does lack a bit of urgency and reading the game but that will come with experience

He was probably wondering how shocking the right side were and couldn't believe how lazy Tommy Lineham was on gathering the ball,there were a few more accountable yesterday and unlike a few others on here i would have liked a few more changes to freshen up the side more

So the 'J' in LJ wouldn't be short for Johnson would it? Bit of nepotism or one eyed viewing?

Johnson wasn't brave enough for the Sneyd kick end of, I was trying to be fair given his age or experience but he was 100% at fault for that, nothing to do with it being a good kick, it wasn't, it was a fortuitous kick because he wasn't brave enough.

He got turned a lot, he wasn't pulling guys around from the back which Russell does do.

If you want me to be brutally honest I can do that, I was in semi happy clapper mode.

Not once did he sweep right in defence covering the overlap that I've seen Russell do a lot, he wasn't at the races and his inexperience was on show for all to see.

Not defending Lineham either, the guy needs a tug boat to turn around.

I though Evans did well, you can't attribute the space to him, what's he meant to do, I'd like to see his tackle stats, because I can't remember him doing much wrong.

I watched the highlights on the SL show & my impression was that Jack Johnson may have been distracted by the oncoming Hull player & allowed the bounce of the ball to beat him.As for one of the chargedowns, it looked more to me like the ball had hit our bloke's hand & no effort had been made to play at the ball.

Can I agree with you AND 'Johnson Senior'? I was disappointed with him for their first try, but, he played pretty well after that took some high ball and some big hits to the point where it was obvious that he was being targeted and stood up well IMO.

FC were at our right side and the space behind Lineham all match long, playing on the size of TL's backside and JJ's inexperience....Gidley at 6 would have sorted it out surely, why didn't anyone else? You look at our line and we often have Sandow inside Penny on the left, yet they went out wide the other way constantly, a bit more application was needed, perhaps fresher legs it was a bit of both AGAR OUT!!!

Ahhhh the game is a foot i'm his Dad

Just a difference of opinion,no need to get excited be as honest as you like,he is a good young player that had an average game and i have admitted there was a lack of experience on show but he is definitley not the scapegoat and alot more players were accountable for the performance yesterday

The one factor we also now need to take into account now is that we are at the top to be shot at and we are a big scalp,this will provide extra motivation for teams when they play us

I didn't want to go to town on the lad, I was trying to be constructive without sounding like I expected him to be like Greg Inglis, players make errors, New players when they step up a grade soon learn they get punished if they play like they are still in the u19's.
But he has to take the rough with the smooth on a forum, getting caught in goal too showed a lack of experience, he should have gone to ground sooner, not allowing himself to be dragged back.
Trust me on this, I want him to be world beater as much as you do, he's young , he's learning and he WILL be targeted because he's a rookie. It doesn't matter at the end of the day what I think, or even you, the only people that he has to listen to are the coaching staff.

I know what your saying and that is fair enough,i just see the first try differently but i do agree with everything else, if he has any sense he won't read these forums

We have got a group of young players that have come through together which will hopefully be the nucleus of the team for years to come

Just out of interest what was the verdict on Dec Patton? He also seems to be getting a bit of bad press from a few posters

I thought he should have been at 6 not Ratchford, Ratch is a Jack of all trades, and should have rotated with Clark at hooker, Patton should have been in from the off.

Tbh I didn't think he was involved enough in the game, looked as though he felt like he was a spare part. I know Stef can play any role but unless there is an injury during the game, give him one role and make him stick to it, not fleeting between hooker and halfback, it's confusing our own players just as much as the opposition.

I think Patton might benefit from regular rugby at another club on loan to help his development.

Steph looked lost yesterday,don't like square pegs and all that,needs must sometimes but Patton should have started and as you say Steph rotated at hooker

I thought we defended slightly better on that side when he came on and he can definitly do one thing better than Sandow and that is tackle, some of his attempted tackles actually made me laugh but we can forgive for that (for now anyway)

evans looked like a turnstyle for much of yesterdays game and had a torrid time against yeaman. Add in lineham's defence and it was easy for Hull down your right side. Only disappointing thing is we didn't make more of it

LJ - as you say - we will have to disagree. Looking at the tries scored, Evans was at fault for one where he slipped.
One of the reasons that edge was exposed was that we got our numbers wrong on more than one occasion.

Johnson messed up for the try imo, but credit must also go to Sneyd for the kick. Again - just my opinion.
I thought he was standing too deep and looked a yard or two away from where he should have been.
But he also took a couple of high bombs well and made a couple of telling runs.

Patton messed up with the charge down (I think), but apart he from that didn't seem to do too much wrong (or that stood out as game changingly right) however a 6 needs to be dominant and I don't think we got that. Another young guy who'll improve.

Overall we had chances to win and didn't take them. In the long run this might do the team some good.

But Tom - when you read this - practice some sprinting......

Well I am interested to see the team for Friday as that will throw some light on TS's choice for Hull. But one point worth noting I think is that any player getting thrown in for one match (Patton, Johnson) is going to find it difficult to perform to his best. And it will be even more difficult for the ( less experienced) lads transitioning from the youth system. I would agree about the points made about Patton, he should have been given the jersey and allowed to get on with it. It's not a great vote of confidence otherwise.

Well, we know tony's thoughts on easter, and how he doesn't usually rate the widnes game, however good friday was a big event adn probably took a lot out of the players.

I was surprised that he didn't make more changes for hull, even if rotating some of the forwards, protecting some more players. I know some on here say play strongest team possible on friday and see what happens monday, but when you've got following friday to think about you need to be smarter, and not changing the team around may have contributed to a slight bit of over confidence and we've believed our own hype in terms of, we're gonna steam roller them.

I'm kinda glad we got beat as it takes a pressure off friday, but i do wonder how knackered some players will be now after that. Not sure its the game i'd be wanting to rotate bodies, however i'm a little bit concerned now Tomkins the bigger house is back lining up alongside gelling in attack, and they'll be running at sandow in defence. hopefully currie is up to doing a lot of tackling.

........plus it looks like Joe Westerman will be absent, and he gets through a lot of work.

But the match sequence also stretches further than Wigan. Admittedly they have a week off, but then we have Saints at home. He might not admit it, but I suspect TS will view it as a must win match. Not just for team morale (we are at home after all) but to win the early season mind game against the 'entertainers', and also maintain a decent points gap.