He [isin-binned[/i a player for denying a clear try scoring opportunity with 3 mins to go. Hardly a major punishment.

No clear professional foul.

Just dont like all this attention on a few dodgy ref calls, its starting to sound like "we would have won with a fair ref" nonsense.

Blaming the ref instead of recognising and acknowledging our culpability in our 12th defeat in 15 games is futile.

He was and is absolutely garbage though

I didn’t say that though, I said he stopped any chance we had of coming back. Which he clearly did.

No one is saying we would have won… or were the better side.

What did you want him to do, time machine so we could benefit the full 10 mins?

Well [iduh yeah that's a good idea fella[/i

Point is, it was hardly a major intervention by the ref and hardly a major handicap for Saints. He had no choice, but if it was ten mins earlier he'd have probably bottled it.

Good to know that despite getting absolutely dominated by st Helen’s it’s the refs fault

So the ref got it correct and it was to the detrement of the saints team, what is your issue with it?

We were woeful the first 20 mins.

We showed some fight in the following 60 minutes and were the better side for 10 mins in that second half.

Hayes did OK with some good kicks.

Our best player today - clark.

Once again, us being crap, and the ref being crap, do not have to be mutually exclusive.

I don't have a problem. But some people seem to think the ref made a brave decision and threw us a lifeline. He didn't - it was the one thing he got right in the last 10 mins.

As it happens, I acknowledge we didn't do enough to win. I also acknowledge that the ref played a part and captains challenge is the only fair way to stop incorrect calls having big outcomes on games. Christ sake even the saints fanclub masquerading as a commentary conceded we'd been done on a few key calls.

A better second half

Think Russell Ashton both took the ball out bravely and dufty played well too with a great effort from all in the second half.

Very annoying decisions from the ref tonight towards the end of the game but we created enough opportunities for it kot to have been in the refs hands. We're just not as sharp and decisive as saints, as good as we played tonight we did not lose because we were. Beat or ref decisions but because at key moments we did not make the right choice or didn't executewell enough to turn it into points.

If we were to do a combined saints n wire combined 13 with the Bench how many Warrington players get in the team and how many based on tonight's game ?

If you are referring to me, you will see that I never used the word brave at all. That is your word injected into a straw man argument to back up your facile point.

I was simply countering this ridiculous, paranoid, narrative that somehow the ref decided in the last 10 minutes to give every penalty to Saints. Focussing on that, rather than our short comings which really cost us the game, may give you some comfort but it won't help us become better one bit.

As odious as their fans are and as much as we may not like to admit it, Saints have by far the majority of the better players, the finer skills, the better composure, the better culture, the higher confidence, the better sporting organisation, the stronger recruitment and a much higher desire and will to win. This is evidenced by them being the most successful SL club. Not sure if they can win a 5th in a row as Wigan look strong but it will take an excellent performance to beat them.

The post of the year well said..I know the world's gone mad..and it has here in bewsey towers but I hope Wigan wallop them