FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Is our pack good enough? |
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| I don’t think that Smith made any bad recruitment choices in the first few years, it’s just that after 2013 we seemed to have this belief we could take average players and somehow turn them into world-beaters. It’s not like we were short of cash so I’m not sure why we didn’t go all out for some international class players.
Anyway, what’s done is done and this current team despite having few ‘superstars’ is clearly picking up the points with basic rugby. Not the most entertaining to watch but satisfying all the same.
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| Quote: easyWire "I don’t think that Smith made any bad recruitment choices in the first few years, it’s just that after 2013 we seemed to have this belief we could take average players and somehow turn them into world-beaters. It’s not like we were short of cash so I’m not sure why we didn’t go all out for some international class players.
Anyway, what’s done is done and this current team despite having few ‘superstars’ is clearly picking up the points with basic rugby. Not the most entertaining to watch but satisfying all the same.'"
Few superstars!...?
I think few will agree with you.
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| We have barely had the first choice pack available this year but whatever we have put out has been good for us and done the job which is great.
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| Quote: easyWire "I don’t think that Smith made any bad recruitment choices in the first few years, it’s just that after 2013 we seemed to have this belief we could take average players and somehow turn them into world-beaters. It’s not like we were short of cash so I’m not sure why we didn’t go all out for some international class players.
'"
It was nothing less than pure arrogance on his behalf. I mean Bailey, Cox, England, Asotasi - why were we shopping in Poundland ? Wherever Smith goes next I would advise their board not to let him sign forwards for starters.
Smith tarnished his legacy by handing over a squad that was way behind the one that was handed to him. Not to mention the club in a lower league position.
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74166_1608576718.jpeg Just my opinions unless it's a FACT, in which case it's a fact.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_74166.jpeg |
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| Quote: Wires71 "It was nothing less than pure arrogance on his behalf. I mean Bailey, Cox, Wheeler, Asotasi - why were we shopping in Poundland ?
Smith tarnished his legacy by handing over a squad that was way behind the one that was handed to him. Not to mention the club in a lower league position.'"
Salary Cap squad fillers, nothing more, nothing less. Every team has them.
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74166_1608576718.jpeg Just my opinions unless it's a FACT, in which case it's a fact.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_74166.jpeg |
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| Apart from Asotasi...obviously.
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| Quote: rubber duckie "Few superstars!...?
I think few will agree with you.'"
I’d say Clark and Charnley could be described as ‘superstars’ (and Currie too if he hadn’t been injured). The rest are the squad are a mix of very good and very solid players, so it wasn’t intended as an insult to the squad. There aren’t many ‘superstars’ currently in the super league, compared to our squad of say, 2011-2013.
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| Quote: Captain Hook "Salary Cap squad fillers, nothing more, nothing less. Every team has them.'"
We could have got much better quality from Home Bargains
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| Quote: easyWire "I’d say Clark and Charnley could be described as ‘superstars’ (and Currie too if he hadn’t been injured). The rest are the squad are a mix of very good and very solid players, so it wasn’t intended as an insult to the squad.'"
Well there are plenty on our rival forums who question how we get the within the cap, who would differ.
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| Quote: Captain Hook "Salary Cap squad fillers, nothing more, nothing less. Every team has them.'"
Bailey (15) , Cox (1icon_cool.gif, Asotasi (5icon_cool.gif and England (39) played a good few games for "squad fillers".
This is coming after Morley, Carvell, Wood, Harrison etc.
Can we agree that assembling a competitive pack (or at least balancing the squad quaility) was not one of Smith's strong points?
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| Quote: Wires71 "Bailey (15) , Cox (1icon_cool.gif, Asotasi (5icon_cool.gif and England (39) played a good few games for "squad fillers".
This is coming after Morley, Carvell, Wood, Harrison etc.
Can we agree that assembling a competitive pack (or at least balancing the squad quaility) was not one of Smith's strong points?'"
I did exclude Asotasi, he was one of those NRL signings that didn't work out, most teams have had them. I don't think anyone other than TS knows why he got so many games.
England wasn't in your original list. He was an "honourable failure" in trying to develop a top class SL prop, from a lower league in the manner of Hill. Personally I would have given England a bit longer.
Bailey I did not want anywhere near our club at any price and made my views known from the outset .
Cox, showed glimpses but I'm surprised the figure is as high as 18 appearances.
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| Quote: Captain Hook "I did exclude Asotasi, he was one of those NRL signings that didn't work out, most teams have had them. I don't think anyone other than TS knows why he got so many games.
England wasn't in your original list. He was an "honourable failure" in trying to develop a top class SL prop, from a lower league in the manner of Hill. Personally I would have given England a bit longer.
Bailey I did not want anywhere near our club at any price and made my views known from the outset .
Cox, showed glimpses but I'm surprised the figure is as high as 18 appearances.'"
So Hill was a success, same for Waterhouse, some would argue Sims. Curry was already here, same for Westwood.
In the Smith time we lost Morley, Carvell, Harrison, Grix, Cooper, L Anderson, V Anderson and didn't adequately replace them.
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| Quote: Wires71 "So Hill was a success, same for Waterhouse, some would argue Sims. Curry was already here, same for Westwood.
In the Smith time we lost Morley, Carvell, Harrison, Grix, Cooper, L Anderson, V Anderson and didn't adequately replace them.'"
Therein lay the issue. I would post and post over and over a 'pack' topic...powder puff light, no biff.
It's like the issue was so obvious but the backs always got the blame.
The rule is simple and true ..the pack wins the game...the backs dictate by how much.
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| Quote: "lets have a look as it rolls out.
2009 forwards, he inherited.
7 monaghan
8 Morley
9 Clarke
10 Rauhihi
11 Landerson
12 Westwood
13 Vanderson
14 Higham
15 Wood
16 Carvell
17 Pickersgill
18 Cooper
20 Grix
21 Blythe
22 Mitchell
24 Harrison
** Mccarthy
2010
8 Morley
9 monaghan
10 Carvell
11 Landerson
12 Westwood
13 Harrison
14 Higham
15 Clarke
16 Wood
17 Grix
18 Cooper
19 Mitchell
20 Blythe
22 McCarthy
24 Thompson (PROMOTED)
26 Solomona (IN)
27 Vanderson
28 Neal (PROMOTED)
2011
8 morley
9 monas
10 carvell
11 landerson
12 westwood
13 harrison
14 higham
15 clarke
16 wood
17 grix
18 cooper
19 mitchell
20 blythe
21 mccarthy
26 Solomona
2012
Out, clarke, landerson, mitchell
8 morley
9 monas
10 carvell
11 waterhouse (IN replaces landerson)
12 westwood
13 harrison
14 higham
15 grix
16 wood
17 cooper
18 blythe
20 hill (IN)
21 Mccarthy
25 Bevans (promoted)
27 Laithwate (promoted)
29 d bridge (in/promoted)
32 Currie (promoted)
33 dwyer (promoted)
35 Riley (promoted)
2013
no recruitment
8 Morley
9 Monaghan
10 Carvell
11 Waterhouse
12 Westwood
13 Harrison
14 Higham
15 Grix
16 Wood
17 Cooper
18 Hill
21 McCarthy
24 Currie
Not easy to find squad details for this year other than the start of the season, i seem to recall riley, bridge and laithwaite also getting plenty of game time in the cup matches and a few other rounds. BUT, no ins.
2014
out; Morley, carvell, cooper
8. Chris Hill
9. Micky Higham
10. Roy Asotasi (IN)
11. Trent Waterhouse
12. Ben Westwood
13. Simon Grix
14. Michael Monaghan
15. Ben Harrison
16. Paul Wood
17. Ben Currie
19. Anthony England (IN)
21. Glenn Riley
22. Brad Dwyer
23. James Laithwaite
2015
8 Hill
9 Clark (In)
10 sims
11 Grix (injured most of the season)
12 Westwood
13 Harrison
14 Higham
15 Asotasi
17 Currie
18 Laithwate (injured half season)
19 England
21 Evans (injured most of the season)
25 Dwyer
26 Philbin (promoted)
27 King (promoted)
31 Wilde (promoted)
2016
8Hill
9 Clarke
10 Sims
11 Currie
12 Hughes (in)
13 Westwood
14 Westerman (in)
15 Dodds ( in injured all season)
16 Dwyer
17 Laithwaite (injured from previous year)
18 King
19 harrison (injured all year operations)
21 Bevans (injured from previour year)
25 Philbin
27 Wilde
29 Julien (in promoted)
31 smith (promoted)
32 Cox (in)
33 bailey (in)
2017
8, Chris Hill
9, Daryl Clark
10, Ashton Sims
11, Ben Currie
12, Jack Hughes;
13, Joe Westerman;
14, Mike Cooper; (IN)
15, Brad Dwyer;
16 George King;
17, Dom Crosby; (IN missed most of year)
18, Andre Savelio; (IN)
21, Matty Blythe;
23, Joe Philbin;
24, Benjamin Jullien;
25, Sam Wilde;
27, Morgan Smith;
28, Harvey Livett;
29, Pat Moran; (PROMOTED)
34, Ben Westwood. '"
from what i can recall in these periods whilst recruitment in the 2010-13 period wasnt huge, we also had improvements in other players, such as harrison and simon grix who were outstanding at times as well as westwood, in the post morley years we had a couple of good seasons from woody, mickey higham and monas (both MOS contenders at the time).
Whilst we were all spewing about cox and bailey being brought in, if you look at the above, they were probably hoping (praying) that either grix bevans or laithwaite would be back(all bad leg injuries) and they were going into the season short, especially with the new signing dodds being out with his hand injury and harrison having the big clean ups.
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| Quote: Fantastic Mr Catpiss "from what i can recall in these periods whilst recruitment in the 2010-13 period wasnt huge, we also had improvements in other players, such as harrison and simon grix who were outstanding at times as well as westwood, in the post morley years we had a couple of good seasons from woody, mickey higham and monas (both MOS contenders at the time).
Whilst we were all spewing about cox and bailey being brought in, if you look at the above, they were probably hoping (praying) that either grix bevans or laithwaite would be back(all bad leg injuries) and they were going into the season short, especially with the new signing dodds being out with his hand injury and harrison having the big clean ups.'"
Great effort there FMC. Credit.
The later years pack, on paper allowing for injuries still looks light and weak.
A failure of TS to transition...some even granted him a season for it...then another.
I was less patient I'm afraid. I don't buy the transition shat myself...they are all pro...and I don't forget how to ride a bike when I've bought a new one.
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