Don't start this sillyness again now, they've been as injured as every other side.

I was actually at that Grand Final and I can comfortably assert that nobody turned up in the redvee that night. Jammer is a fabulous player but even he cannot win a Grand Final all by himself. That he made a fool of himself was undeniable. However, he shouts at everyone on the pitch - his own team mates as much as anyone - he is a lippy Scouser and that is just who he is. Sometimes he keeps a lid on it towards the refs, other times he doesn't. Without that fire he wouldn't have been half the player he has been and continues to be.


There have been times when that has been the case this season and personally I put it down to the same problem that Eastmond has had (but Graham has been more professional than Eastmond) - he is distracted by his impending move. However, you have also seen the rest of the pack step up and perform when they have been fit, present and determined enough. For example, TP was absolutely immense for us against Hull last week. That doesn't mean Jammer was rubbish. He worked just as hard as ever. But another pack man stood up. That wasn't happening last season or indeed the season before.

James Graham is indeed hardy, of that there is no doubt and it is that quality, along with those moments when his passing is exquisite, that we are going to miss the most. We don't have as durable a player as him in our team. But I don't agree that it is his durability which is what makes him stand out. However, I don't think we will agree on this so it may be best to agree to disagree!

graham plays more minutes than carvell, and also we have a full pack that shares the workload, you have roby and graham, thats it. its all well and good that he has amazing stats now but when hes 28 and burnt out and fades off before he turns 30 well that isnt so good.

If we're going off stats, then you're wrong, because the metres per carry shows:

Graham - 7.08m per carry
Carvell - 7.54m per carry

HTH

Leftfield

What would James' stats be like if he played for Wire or Hudds? (don't get in to a silly debate about cap etc)

I bet they'd be completely different.

Although Graham rounds each carry up to 10m by taking two steps off the mark each time.

IN YOUR OPINION, WHICH MEANS VERY LITTLE.

all wigan trained! goalpostchangingfantasticum!

wtf does it matter, your glory team of the 80's consisted of many players who were bought for cold hard cash!

i now am getting sick myself of all this bickering(i never thought i'd say that!)

leave us alone will yah for a bit, stay on your own board, cos i'm so bored of inbred ramblings!

Don't know if this has been mentioned in an earlier post because i couldn't be d trawling through all the other pages but statisically Paul Wood is your best prop.

He beats Cravell and Morley in every department.

All I did was say Jeff Lima.....

How about we think of this from another angle.

We know Carvell makes su0per human metres per carry.

But stats are clouding the issue. where we need instead look is, maybe, peer awards.

Graham was a man of steel... a while a go.

How many MOM on Sky have each maan won/ times showed.

How many games have they been on the winning team?

These too are flawed but are just as adaptable as stats.

This will most likely always be personal preference. And Roby isn't as good as Monas.

Yeah - your right jd.

I'd be happy with either Graham or Carvell in our '4'.

Carvell has stepped into the void left by Moz missing out and is really showing how good he is.