FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Psychology |
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| Perhaps its a case of Daryl Powell saying "step forward who wants to be captain" & everybody else stepped back ,leaving the job to Jacko.
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| I have a little prediction competition with a few mates and picked Catalans to win. When asked why I said:
"I know, they're missing their 1, 8, 9, and 10 among a few others. But losing this one would be a very Warrington thing to do."
Whenever we're favourites against a motivated team we have a tendency to just think turning up will be enough. We'll then have a decent spell towards the end up but ultimately fall short.
While our lack of size is an issue this year, I think it goes back to the weak mentality the club has had for years. It's an issue Powell has to sort and not having an effective leader is a big part of the problem,
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| We can't be definitive simply because we don't hear the on and off field discussions, but I would certainly feel the major culprit is the lack of a forceful, vocal captain. If you look at the team after they concede a try you never see someone waving their arms, gesticulating, banging a fist into their palm, walking around the group and getting eye contact. That's the job of the leader / captain, regardless of how many senior / England players are in the team, somebody still needs to bully and cajole everyone to up their game. But we simply don't see that with the Wire team, instead a group of (apparently) disconsolate players gather near the sticks looking like a women's knitting circle rather than a group determined to up their work rate and hit back twice as hard.
Another possible culprit is attitude. Watching the warm up preparations of a Wigan v Wire academy game ( where you can get within 10 yards of the players ) you see a big difference in attitude. Wigan hit the tackling bags really hard, Wire look as though they are going through the motions and getting their body positions correct. All that can only come from attitude. Start with the right mindset and at high energy levels and you can take the initiative, demoralising the opposition. All too often we see Wire concede early tries followed by a 'spirited reply' which just falls short. Fans go home encouraged by the response believing the team can still win silverware, but the real issue of attitude remains unaddressed.
Those would be my two guesses; mental preparation prior to kick off and lack of a leader.
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| I took my missus to her first game of rugby on Friday and she knows nothing about it. But she made a few comments
One was, "the other team seem a lot more enthusiastic"
Another was "why do we take longer to get off the floor"
Basic rugby, that we can't even do properly because we think we've got enough 'talent' to win us games.
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| Quote: Moe syslak "I took my missus to her first game of rugby on Friday and she knows nothing about it. But she made a few comments
One was, "the other team seem a lot more enthusiastic"
Another was "why do we take longer to get off the floor"
Basic rugby, that we can't even do properly because we think we've got enough 'talent' to win us games.'"
Strange you should say that ,i took my wife to a game at Wigan about 15 years ago & she said Wigan made the Wire look carp ,like a gang of amateurs even. Perhaps ,as Winslade says ,we should be developing a culture of improving confidence in taking on opponents in a dominant way & not being content with being gallant losers.
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| Wasn't Widdop the captain of St George Illawarra for 4 seasons?
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "We can't be definitive simply because we don't hear the on and off field discussions, but I would certainly feel the major culprit is the lack of a forceful, vocal captain. If you look at the team after they concede a try you never see someone waving their arms, gesticulating, banging a fist into their palm, walking around the group and getting eye contact. That's the job of the leader / captain, regardless of how many senior / England players are in the team, somebody still needs to bully and cajole everyone to up their game. But we simply don't see that with the Wire team, instead a group of (apparently) disconsolate players gather near the sticks looking like a women's knitting circle rather than a group determined to up their work rate and hit back twice as hard.
Another possible culprit is attitude. Watching the warm up preparations of a Wigan v Wire academy game ( where you can get within 10 yards of the players ) you see a big difference in attitude. Wigan hit the tackling bags really hard, Wire look as though they are going through the motions and getting their body positions correct. All that can only come from attitude. Start with the right mindset and at high energy levels and you can take the initiative, demoralising the opposition. All too often we see Wire concede early tries followed by a 'spirited reply' which just falls short. Fans go home encouraged by the response believing the team can still win silverware, but the real issue of attitude remains unaddressed.
Those would be my two guesses; mental preparation prior to kick off and lack of a leader.'"
Great post. Absolutely agree with this.
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| Quote: Jack Napier "I have a little prediction competition with a few mates and picked Catalans to win. When asked why I said
How is this culture continuing? It's been with us for a decade now.
CEO changed
Coach changed.
Coaching staff changed.
Players changed (bar a few)
Maybe it's the super fan messages on Facebook saying "hard luck Warrington, well played" when we get embarrassed at home that seep through to the players. Or the "very talented" smoke that get's blown up their s from all and sundry.
At least Powell is angered by it and not said "we can learn from it" for the hundredth time in a row. Proof will be if under performing players are dropped. I would start with Philbin. Some players need to be jolted out of their comfort zone.
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| I’d certainly back Walker for Captain. He’s always animated and never afraid to have a dig at the more senior squad members (see Cooper in round 1). It wouldn’t surprise me to see Powell give him the role at some point in the future. All depends on what happens with Clark I guess.
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| Quote: Wires71 "How is this culture continuing? It's been with us for a decade now.
'"
The culture must just get passed on from one generation to the next. Even in these down years, you sense that Wigan know that the only thing good enough for the club is winning silverware. We're (most fans/club staff) just happy to be a fairly decent team.
When a player comes to the club, they must sense that we don't have that elite mentality.
Every good team gets turned over now and again but it happens to us far too often and far too predictably.
Powell got his first real taste of it against Catalans but has also been on the other end of it as Castleford coach. Hopefully he can change it.
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| Quote: easyWire "I’d certainly back Walker for Captain. He’s always animated and never afraid to have a dig at the more senior squad members (see Cooper in round 1). It wouldn’t surprise me to see Powell give him the role at some point in the future. All depends on what happens with Clark I guess.'"
walker that got hooked after 15 minutes last week and didn't return?
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| Quote: Fantastic Mr Catpiss "walker that got hooked after 15 minutes last week and didn't return?'"
Sorry, I wasn't referring to individual performances last week, I meant it more in the context of how we change going forward. I think Walker is the typical Powell player - not outstanding, but above average and prepared to let Powell mould him and would relish the leadership challenge. We've seen Powell do that with Gale and McShane to name a couple.
I don't think there's any immediate fix, but I'm interested to see how we develop over the season. Next week is a big test of our bouncebackability. If we can can come up with a good performance at Saints that shows what we're capable of doing when we click, then we at least have something to work on. We still lack penetration in the forwards so I'll be interested to see how we plan to take Saints on. I think Wane nailed it last week when he said Powell needs more than one pre-season to fix Warrington.
Also, let's not forget Wigan nearly slipped up in Toulouse, even with all that 'DNA'.
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| Quote: Jack Napier "The culture must just get passed on from one generation to the next. Even in these down years, you sense that Wigan know that the only thing good enough for the club is winning silverware. We're (most fans/club staff) just happy to be a fairly decent team.
'"
Logic would suggest it's the board of directors. They have been ever present through this period and are responsible for the hiring and firing of coaches. But, as we know, they don't sack under performing coaches very often or very quickly. They prefer to let results flat line and contracts run out. They say they want to be the best, but don't ensure it. Sure we make the occasional big signing, and I am sure they spend a lot of money, but they don't hold coaches feet to the fire.
From this Powell can think, quite reasonably, that he has got this job for at least 3 years.
But I bet Peet at Wigan won't think the same about his position and I bet Furner (ex Leeds) doesn't need any reminding of what poor results in 3 months can do to a 3 year contract.
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49863_1309431041.jpg Neither glass half full or empty. Just a realist.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_49863.jpg |
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| It's a combination of many things
I've said many times before, WE'RE TOO NICE. As a club AND a fan base. We accept being OK, or good or sometimes very good. Never excellent, or dare I say it THE BEST. God, 3 weeks ago, we beat Leeds, and there's people on here felling sorry for Leeds..... "the better side lost"...... b0110cks to that attitude. 2 points to us, and #### Leeds. They wouldn't feel sorry for us. That's where a winning mentality is built. How many GFs have they won in the last 20odd years? Likewise Wigan and Saints. The trouble is "we know our place"
Captaincy.
Well that's a joke, too. Jack Hughes? Jack flipping Hughes. He shouldn't be anywhere near the Matchday 18, let alone leading the club. Saying that, none of our squad comes across as a "leader of men". A Shaun Edwards, a Kevin Sinfield or in football, a Vincent Kompany. Someone who players will run through proverbial brick walls for. Someone who leads from the front. Unfortunately, these men are rare, and it seems we got our current captain by Price playing "eeny meeny miny Mo", and the last person was Hughes. Powell has merely carried this on. The side is made up of talented individuals and squad players. Not a leader amongst them.
Again, I'll go back to the GF of 2013. We're 16-2 up when Monaghan gets injured. We stand around, whilst Tomkins cajoles his is entire team, whilst Monaghan is being tended to. I said to the person next to me... "Wigan will score here".... guess what, they did. From then on, we didn't score another point. Even with Morley as captain. Winning teams with a winning mentality do this regularly.
The sooner we get a ruthless streak, the better. Until then, we're feeding off scraps, and praying for Saints, Leeds and Wigan slip ups.
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| Quote: lefty goldblatt "It's a combination of many things
I've said many times before, WE'RE TOO NICE. As a club AND a fan base. We accept being OK, or good or sometimes very good. Never excellent, or dare I say it THE BEST. God, 3 weeks ago, we beat Leeds, and there's people on here felling sorry for Leeds..... "the better side lost"...... b0110cks to that attitude. 2 points to us, and #### Leeds. They wouldn't feel sorry for us. That's where a winning mentality is built. How many GFs have they won in the last 20odd years? Likewise Wigan and Saints. The trouble is "we know our place"
Captaincy.
Well that's a joke, too. Jack Hughes? Jack flipping Hughes. He shouldn't be anywhere near the Matchday 18, let alone leading the club. Saying that, none of our squad comes across as a "leader of men". A Shaun Edwards, a Kevin Sinfield or in football, a Vincent Kompany. Someone who players will run through proverbial brick walls for. Someone who leads from the front. Unfortunately, these men are rare, and it seems we got our current captain by Price playing "eeny meeny miny Mo", and the last person was Hughes. Powell has merely carried this on. The side is made up of talented individuals and squad players. Not a leader amongst them.
Again, I'll go back to the GF of 2013. We're 16-2 up when Monaghan gets injured. We stand around, whilst Tomkins cajoles his is entire team, whilst Monaghan is being tended to. I said to the person next to me... "Wigan will score here".... guess what, they did. From then on, we didn't score another point. Even with Morley as captain. Winning teams with a winning mentality do this regularly.
The sooner we get a ruthless streak, the better. Until then, we're feeding off scraps, and praying for Saints, Leeds and Wigan slip ups.'"
Excellent post, nail hit firmly and squarely on the head!
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