Look it's not the half's so much as it is the pack.
Get the pack right and the half's we have will look world class.

Gale and Miller for eg would have been unhappy signings before the Brown came in....I bet there isn't many who wouldn't swap Brown for either at this time.

Get the pack right and we'll be right....this is what I sum up about the 2017 pack.

Cooper...poor, Hill... poor,
Hughes...poor, Westerman....injuries/average, Dwyer...poor, Sims....his best season/fair/good but gone. Clark....injuries/good, King...poor, Westwood...fair/disciplinary, Philbin...fair, Savelio...good but gone, Crosby...excused.
So the only two except Clark I'd say we're good, won't be here next year so we are only going to get worse...even if we had Thurston fronting this lot for 2018 we'd still be around the bottom half of the table.

So what about shifting Ratchford to centre and going after Lomax, he can't be happy at Saints right now, he as the number 1 shirt yet last 2 games he as been centre and halfback.

Ben Barba could do a lot of damage ... to St Helens. He looks dreadful at the moment and cannot be worth his place. Thank God we didn't get him.

Is it fanciful to suggest that without Hiku we could be in a lot worse position than we are?

nope he has had an effect on the team take away his toys as its unlikely Evans would have scored them we could be looking at the mpg game or worse

You can't argue with that !
The pack has been a shambles all season, and has steadily deteriorated over the past few seasons. Hopeless now, needs major surgery without sentiment or emotion or favour

And I have said it before, we have become more of a local celebrity club than a town rl club. ( is that down to Simon Moran's media aurora?).

This is all pathetic with Hiku, but now with Smith going aswell I've wiped my hands of it all. It has been a shambles of a year so i'm just happy to let it go. I'm now looking forward to a new coach and see what they can do and the players they can bring in I'm just excited for the 2018 season and forgetting this poop train of a season

He will never get in the England team at FB ahead of Hardaker/ Tomkins etc. So wouldn't surprise me one bit. Least he's not like Russell who changes his mind more than the wind changes direction.

Whilst I think Ratch has a lot to offer at Fullback (that's his only major fault - too versatile) I too would love to see him given the chance to be a creative centre. He shone there at Salford and also the few times he played there in his early days for us. He doesn't seem to relish the responsibility of being the main playmaker at half-back so give him the chance to settle into what he likes doing best. He's an undoubted talent.

I would to then see us bring through a Hodgson style character at the back communicating defence.

I think fans of other teams though that about Sandow at the end of 2015, then look what he did the next year. Admittedly the year after that he pooped off home but you get my point

Sorry for butting in but i've been intruiged by the comments about Ratchford. I personally have always seen his best position as centre, Jodie Broughton had his best try scoring season outside him at Salford when they had Smith and Holdsworth in the Halves and Patten at full back. I do agree a lot of your attack seems stifled at times and the ball dies with him at full back. I think with the dearth of centres at international laevel if he could pin down a centre spot at club level he would have more chance of game time for England too

Can I just chip in here?

It wasn't so long ago that our forwards were getting us to the opposition 20 (or closer) and our halfs could do nothing to get over the line bar a speculative kick to the corner?

Ok, the forward pack hasn't been great but, with better backs we'd have won at least 2 or 3 games more meaning we'd have finished in the top 8!

I thought one of our biggest problems this season has been keeping possession. The number of unforced errors has been ridiculous ,meaning we have put ourselves under needless pressure. Probably lack of concentration during games & panic rugby has been killing us.

I agree, which does beg the question what does a coach do about that? They really should know how to keep hold of a ball at this stage of their career.

a coach would educate them on desision and risk taking assessment and guide them to make the right choice as when to pass and when to keep hold of the ball

but in general its clear that little if any work is done on the basics passing etc not just at warrington but in super league on whole, one reason why m smith looks promising is the speed of his passes and also accuracy