JD, genuine question, why don't you think Sam is a very good fullback?

Attacking wise he hasn't been matched this year, and defensively while he has the odd shake it's a lot less often than other players across the league.

he'll never be a good fullback until he leaves wigan until then he's just scummy boo'able rat boy

My opinion of sam has never been a secret and I think I have a firm grounding for my assertions. I will list, quickly;

His defence, I feel, is more than shaky.
I don't trust him under a highball (he is no wellens of brett)
He does not pass... Ever
Thus he does not provide a pivot
I think he moves like a crab further than he moves forwards (usually to no advantage)
I have said he is only effective with his attack in severly broken defence; against lower table teams.
He is as wet as water and slips over or falls to the floor after the slightest touch
... I think there is more but I am taking too long to type this out.

If I was in charge of england rl, I would try lomax there and see how he does.

I think this year sam is a shoe in cause there is no one else challenging but there could easily be a lomax or a riley who can challenge him next year.

To be fair to jd, there are enough Wiganers squabbling on Cherry'n'White board (currently 6 pages) with the same arguement

I trust him under a highball, I'd wager he's had less clangers than Brett this year. He's had 3 less errors than Hodgson in 1 game more.

He does pass, how else do you get 18 assists? He could maybe pass more, but to say he doesn't pass at all is ridiculous.

Only effective against lower table teams? With the exception of the last few weeks (when he's been carrying an injury), some of his best games have been against the top sides. Just look at last seasons grand final as a prime example.

Only goes laterally when he has the ball? How has he got 169 tackle busts? 67 more than anyone else in the league. Never mind getting the 2nd most metres in the entire league.

I think the last few weeks have shown how much Tomkins does as a pivot, when he hasn't been fully fit + firing Wigan have a lot less options, and create noticeably less overlaps without him joining in as that extra man.

I won't squabble over this and I don't understand your religious devotion to him. I would like to clear things up. Ultimately, I am frustrated with sam. It is clear he has a lot of pace and an eye for a gap however, whether it is due to poor coaching or (as much as I doubt it) big headedness on his part he is not as devastating at fullback as I would hope.

I may show some lack of knowledge here but my idea of a fullback is a bomb disposer and making yards on the catch. Of course play making and a good kicking game are helpful but not vital.

I would like to point out my lack of faith in statistics and I don't want to say sam is an awful player. I just want a more reliable fullback.

I fear we will just bicker in a tit for tat pattern over the specifics but sam has been anonymous against warrington x2 in the league, against sts x2 in the league (exlcuding x2 in POs) and apart from a kick at leeds almost anomymous there. In fact it wasn't till hull had knocked themselves out that he was able to put them to the sword (and that was when he was fresh) at hull.

You can not honestly say you are happy with sam's passing game afyter he has made a yard or two, can you? He has thrown away so many chances through trying to force something he physically can't do.

Finally, as lefty (??) Says, there are many pies going back on their claim sam is the best FB in the world. I have been impressed with riley recently. Obviously that isn't enough to give him the pos but he has recently shown up brett and is safe under a high ball, makes good yards and is a great passer and finisher. Similiar story with lomax. However both haven't been given the proper run out.

I look forward to sam tearing up the aussies arrises but I fear it may be some time till he reaches anywhere near his potential.

well done jd.....you appear to be wrong on almost all of your points.

easily the best fullback in SL this season... by some distance as well.

Fair enough if thats your opinion, didn't mean to start getting into a tit for tat squabble.

But its not blind faith in Sam, it comes from watching him week in week out for a few years. Yes, he has areas he could improve, he is undoubtedly quilty of being greedy sometimes. But equally, there are very few instances when he struggles under the high ball, consistently makes ridiculous amounts of metres on kick returns, skins players for fun, scores tries for fun, gets countless assists and is genuinely rather adept with his tackling technique.

Most of all though, whatever anyone thinks of his attitude and behaviour, he's one heck of a brave player. He gets targeted by every side he plays for high shots + niggles (he's give em back, but he gets targeted) but he gets up and gets on with it.

There isn't a FB that comes close in SL (imo), and there's only a handful in the NRL that i'd have over him.

im going to have to take exception to that..... he dives on the floor to avois being tackled... he is an excellent player... however he isn't brave.

I can't argue with the bit in bold. Always hungry for more; even after an elbow to the face or late tackle to the chin. As I say, he has all the tools, I am a little disappointed with the outcome. I would like to state that I obviously haven't seen him as much as you.

Deckchair, that is my greivance. In terms ENGLISH fullbacks we have only one option, sam. I would prefer to give lomax and riley more of a run as I think they are stronger in defense and better play makers (what we need against thw top 2 in the world, aus and nz)

I wouldn't argue that sam can produce genius on his own. He has scared players against tackling him and, as I say, we need look only at his try that killed off hull to realise that. However, my concerns are on defense and play making.

It is opinion and i would prefer more viable options than sam. Maybe that will improve everyone's performance.

anyway... back on topic... i have decided im all for chase playing for England.. if everyone else is at it, then why shouldn't we be.... international sport stopped being the country you were born in along time ago... Jack Charlton has alot to answer for.

Apparently Rangi's residency - and I'm not making this up - is because he had a pet cat that was English. This shows the crazy system we were left by New Labour.

Ken Clarke has asked to see the cat.

Billy Slater's great Aunties housekeeper's 3rd husband has an Old English Sheepdog - sign him up!

If Tony Cascarino can play for Ireland, Ranji Chase is English.