There is alot of talk of 40/20's but I can only see 1 from the warrington hooker this year, it's hardly a key stat in the games this season.

The year before is was 3 to 1 for MM and the year before that it was 2 a piece. These are hardly the figures to base a kicking game on.

Lets face it from that stat John wilkin has a better kicking game than both put together and he spends most of his games in the 2nd row.

I would add the fact Monaghan has an accurate passing game, too.

As expected the Saints fans have made a strong defence of Roby in this thread. Yes the stats are very revealing and looking through season by season does show on stats he is probably the best player in SL. Also as has been pointed out he is now holding together a Saints side which has lost a lot of quality players in recent years and he is keeping them at a level where they are still credible double winners so that does deserve respect, he is becoming a figure like Farrell was for Wigan in around 1999-04.

I think I was wrong to say at that he was a bit overrated, maybe he's one who you have to see in your team every week to properly appreciate him. I used to see Cunningham and think he was the best British player since Hanley and I didn't get that feeling about Roby but the case for Roby is convincing.

I wouldn't trade Monaghan for Roby though and I don't think that's just pro-Wire bias against a Saints player, over the years I would have happily traded most of our players for Saints players if the chance had come up. Monaghan has got some intangibles that I wouldn't give up, I think it's as an attacking force from hooker in the final third of the field he just takes the right option all the time. I always have confidence when Monaghan has the ball that he is just someone who knows how to get a team around the field, which Briers does as well.

All those years we have been saying we needed a halfback partner for Briers to take the pressure off him but actually another creative halfback would get in his way, what we really needed was someone to take the team around the field from dummy half which wouldn't tread on Briers toes for taking the team around the field from the halves. It's like Andrew Johns and Buderus at Newcastle.

Great thread, proper rugby discussion………

(Waits for said discussion to be dragged down to phallic measuring)

Both great players, Monas is better though.

Although both players nominally play in the same position, in reality they don’t. In order to formulate an argument as to who is the best player, it would be natural to look at the statistics for said position and compare. The problem with this analysis is that both players have completely different remits within their respective teams. So any analysis based on numbers, is fundamentally flawed.

Positions, and therefore specific roles within the team, are not set in stone. If you were to google ‘what does a hooker do?’ (Do not do this, even with safe search on. I am merely suggesting this in a hypothetical context and in no way wish to encourage or condone the typing of the above phrase into google)

Anyway, there is no definitive answer to the question.

Roby is a forward type 9, with a bit of the halfback type bit.
Monas is a halfback type 9, with a bit of the forward type bit.

Roby could play as a forward but not as a half back.
Monas could play as a halfback, but not as a forward.

Sorry there is not much substance to my argument, I just think Monas is the better player. When I watch the two of them I’m more impressed by him. He has so much more to his game. Roby, at the moment is probably more effective, but Monas can adapt what he does and completely control a game like no other player in SL at the moment.

Roby is an incredible athlete, Monaghan has an incredible rugby brain, to put it bluntly.

Which is more effective is hard to say.

very well sumerised!

Different types of hooker. Monas will create lots of attacks through attacking the line and setting up attacking through a short or long pass just before or after breaking the line, or a long pass which creates an overlap outwide, which doesn't show up on a stat sheet. Roby is perfect for the way Saints play, they've always got teams on the backfoot with their quick play the balls and he is a bundle of energy which doesnt' and wouldn't translate well in the NRL, which doesn't make him a bad player. Monas is more of a creative player who set's up through his rugby brain and spotting weaknesses in defence. If you swapped both players around I don't think either team would be as succesfull due to their styles.

I know how Harry Hill would settle this.

I guess we will have to wait until England play the Exiles and Wire play Saints. maybe then we can re-judge

Completely neutral on this one, so here's my twopenny worth.

Both are excellent players and vital cogs in their teams.
They are two different styles of players, Roby is a dynamic running hooker, particularly from dummy half and he also does more than his fair share of tackling.

Monaghan, is a crafty scheming hooker and IMO has a better creative, passing and kicking game.

Would Monaghan as a starting hooker improve Saints, I don't think so
Would Roby as a starting hooker improve Wire, I don't think so.
The teams play different styles of RL.

Roby, because he is younger would in all probability be the choice for most fans of other clubs. However, I prefer the Monaghan style as I really don't line head down, arris up scooter hooker, but accept it suits some teams and some situations.

In all honestly, I'd have to say Monas is second behind Roby in SL. The stats back it up, and Roby is an absolute machine. If you took him out of the Saints squad, then their ability to go forward would come to a halt.

However, both are equally as important to their respective teams.

Think Sally asked who's best out of Atkins and Shenton. Atkins for me all day, particularly at the moment.

I dont think 'Mohammed Bruce Alee' would win a fight against Roby. Have you seen the simpsons episode where Homer has a boxing career, thats Roby. The man is genetically tough. I remember seeing him in a tackle where is leg got bent allsorts of different ways, most players would have been out for months, he shook it off as if it had never happened.

I'm sure Rogues has come in saying something about old style hooking.

BUt it is true. the olden days used to be a hooker hooked. Being caught from DH with the ball was penalised. Monaghan can pass to a 2 pence piece. Roby can't.

Roby puts in Westwood-like energy. But he will one day be stopped from his scoots from Dummy half. Monaghan has never been beaten with his brain.

There are so many areas where it is difficult to tell. Many would have Roby as he is younger. Well MM has been the best for years.

I think Roby/ MM argument is like saying who's better Westwood or Lomax. 2 different players who happen to play the same position. All I'll say is, I hope Robes is good for England and get's caught out for Sts.

Explain.

err?