Hock's stats are from Wigan's 2009 season when we mediocre to poor. His stats are being compared against players from Wire's 2010 season, Warrington's best ever year in SL. So when compared against Westwood, a player who many thought was contender for MOS this year and you take in the above, Gareth's stat's are very impressive. What you've got to remember is Gareth's not a defensive player, that's not to see he can't defend, but he played in a backrow with Hansen and lockers two of the best defensive backrowers in the league, it wasn't his job.


And your point about Joel's a superb one, look at the improvement in his game and pretty much all the players at Wigan under Madge in 2010. If the same rate of improvement were to happen to Hock once under the tutelage of Maguire when he returns, a fantastic secondrower just got a whole lot better.

Simply put. I'm comparing a Gareth Hock playing in very poor Wigan team against Warrington players who just had their best ever season in SL. Also the Wire players played an average of ten games more in 2010 than hock did in 2009. Yet Hock's stat's are more impressive, but granted not defensively.

Exactly if Hock can be so good in an average Wigan team imagine how good he will be when surrounded by higher quality players under a quality coach.

Hock on his 2009 form would walk into most teams in the world, all depends on how he gets back after his ban though.

These are ifs and buts... Who's saying in a decent team he might not just be a player who's consistent but not outstanding?
Any player who's had two years out of any sport will find it tough, but if he's as good as his 2009 stats suggest, his quality will shine through.

Personally I think he'll be a bench player with Hansen, Tomkins and Lockers first choice back rowers at best.

Also I can't think of a player in SL that I would have ahead of Westwood. Not one.

Anderson.

No thanks.

Well it's only an opinion, and mine is, i think Hock is a better player than Anderson.

That is not true at all your saying things that i didn't say

What you're missing, is that in those statistics Hock has played 10 games less than the above 3 players, yet still comes out with similar, sometimes better(!) statistics despite playing 800 less minutes of RL.

Only time will tell whether Hock will be a success when he comes back, he will obviously need game time to get used to Super League again but believe me when I say, a bigger, clean, more determined Hock will be frightening for the opposition. You lot can all say 'he's rubbish' 'i'd rather have anderson' ( ) but I get the feeling you'll be keeping your mouths shut about him in a couple of years time.

You posted I wish Danny McGuire breaks his neck before editing your post to this...

Last post on this matter dont want to derail the thread

1 I did NOT say i wanted mcguire to be disabled

2 That was my first post i edited my second one so please try getting your facts right

There was around 10 people saying the same thing that night even mods so if you want to keep posting what i said be my quest no skin off my nose

I like the way you defend it by saying 'even wigan mods were doing it'.

I think some people have short memories on Hock. He was a good player who carried a weak Wigan team for a while, I remember thinking that if he could clean up the indiscipline in his game he wasn't far off being able to be a Farrell-like figure. If he had signed for us a couple of years ago I would have said it was second only to Morley as a top signing.

He does have a big task now though. It has made it harder for him that Wigan have become a top side without him, its like if Iestyn Harris had come back from union and gone to Leeds. He will find it hard to fit back into the Wigan unit that used to think of him as a main player but has got used to playing without him, so his status will be different. We've been hearing all this stuff about how he's been training the house down and determined to make up for lost time which I'm sure he is, but he won't get too much time, and there will be lots of pressure on him because he's coming back from a ban, he will always be seen as a tainted character now.

I will reserve judgement and wouldn't write him off because there's no doubt he was well ahead of most British forwards, of his generation of young players that came through about 8/9 years ago I thought he was the best in the country.

BUT the game has a habit of leaving players behind who have had time out - look at all the guys who went and did a stint in union and came back, Harris, Henry Paul, Chev Walker and so on, they never had the same impact second time around.

We there be many songs for mr hock when he comes back?

[iwho's that lying on the carpet?
why's there a needle in his arm?
It's the drugs cheat Gareth Hock
and he's foaming at the mouth
But its ok because recreational drugs are not performance enhancing... so he isn't doing any harm.[/i

SC, a very good and honest assessment.

The truth of is no one knows how he will perform when he comes back in June. What I do know from people who have seen him is that he looks in very good physical condition and I suspect will be even stronger than just before his ban.

A fit, performing Hock is a benefit to RL particularly from an England p.o.v.