What do you disagree with lefty?

Do you think I'm wrong to put Westwood up with the likes of Scully, Farrell and O'Loughlin as elite players in the British game?

Or do you not think he's overstepped the mark a few times and been treated with leniency like them.

Remember we aren't talking about complete nutcases like Hock here, just guys that have pushed the boundaries a bit and earned some leeway through their status.

Go on then, I'm game.

I don't disagree with it.
As I said at the time, Westwood was a FOOL to do what he did in the first minute of last year's GF, and, had he been seen by officials, would have been deservedly been sent of for a cheap shot. As it wasn't spotted (iirc, it was met with a chorus of boos from Wiganers when replayed on the screen, but not penalised), he got away with it.

As far as I'm concerned, Westwood's previous misdemeaners (and there have been quite a few) have appropriately dealt with by the RFL. A 5 match ban for a head shot v Cats a few season's back, being one such incident. There have been others. What get's on my nipple ends, is that the aforementioned suspects (Farrell, Scully, SO'L) have got away with murder for years, simply because of their status. Westwood has only reached the "untouchable" echelon, in the last handful of seasons, but still gets banned e.g. Wakey this year, for a "I say you did, you say you didn't" argument at Red Hall.

The RFL and their matchday officials have a duty to do their jobs to the letter. Not on reputation. Without turning this into a Wigan hate thread, there were countless others over the years. Dean Bell, who instructed SO'L into the man he is today (imo), being a typical example.

....and no you shouldn't earn leeway over the years. You play the game to within the laws. Break them, and you SHOULD be appropriately dealt with, no matter if you're an A team trialist, or a seasoned international.

One of the things that really irks me about our game, is the inconsistencies we REGULARLY see.

In the Westwood incident, the HB wasn't prone on the floor at all, he was unsighted and Westwood came in with a swinging arm and got him. It happens in plenty of games, Westwood should have been red carded and any right minded Wires fan would not attempt to condone the incident. However, the Flowers incident I'm talking specifically about the second punch) was quite different. Hohaia was lay on the floor, dazed, potentially badly hurt, unable to defend himself and Flowers held him down and hit him again.

As for the negative press, what do you expect? We shout from the rooftops (usually, quite rightly) that we are a family game, that we are an honest game and that the players are tough, uncomprising but [igentlemen[/i. If the RFL want to preserve that image then they can attract some more headlines by dishing out a suitably tough ban.

What is interesting in that in the press today, neither Flower's nor Wigan's official statements of apology identify what they are apologising for. The first punch? The second punch? Hitting a defenceless and potentially injured opponent on the floor?

The lawyers will be mobilising as I type.

Having had a while to mull this over;

1) I agree with Dita, this was not a premeditated attack by Flower. He simply lost his head ( and then the match).

2) I think you can tell how bad the punch was by the fact he was sent off. The RFL don't want their showcase matches marred by red cards, and referees tend to be overly lenient for finals.

3) It may have been Flower's fist, but it was Wayne's arm. I don't like the negativity he has brought to the game. If other clubs follow the Wigan approach , we are likely to see slow ptb whilst we watch 'all in wrestling', super fit players sprinting off their defensive line, and overtly aggressive 4 man tackling. That is not intended as a deliberate slur, merely an observation that when one team adopts these sort of tactics and is successful, it encourages others to follow them. I prefer the TS approach to rugby, although perhaps tempered with a bit more caution from time to time.

4) I agree with the Wigan fans, I think they would have won if they had not lost Flower. That is far from an endorsement though.

As previously mentioned it was hardly a classic & it's a pity that the image of the Wigan club is being blackened by the negative & over aggressive tactics used by the team & endorsed by the management. They are oozing with talent & need to channel that through skilful play & get away from sledging tactics.It is to be hoped the seven Wigan tourists temper their aggression for the 4 Nations or the Aussies will be banging heads together.

People make out Wigan are fitter, they are not fitter, that 9-12 seconds in the ruck helps them last longer.

and there, ninearches, you've summed it up perfectly in your second sentence.

Wigan play some delightful rugby, that's as easy on the eye as us or Saints. That flowing move they always seem to do when (Sky cameras are there) they are attacking from right to left, and the ball just glides from hand to hand, and invariably ends up in a try in the corner for Charnley to stroll in at the corner. It's great to watch.
They just let themselves down with
a) constant holding down in the tackle. You were used to that, when the likes of Swinton/Workington/Hunslet came in the mid 80's, and just spoilt all game, so they only got beat by 40odd, instead of 60odd
b) constant cheapshots. Yes, all teams do it, just not repeatedly, and
c) these highly dangerous chickenwing/cannonball "tackles" that Wane's been involved with for the last few seasons.
I find it difficult to understand his "I'll stand by Flower" comments he's given to the media since last night. Then I remembered....he's Shaun Wane, and he pointblank refuses to admit to anything.

There's a fine line bordering telling your team to "get in the opposition's faces" in the opening exchanges (like Saints did to them on the opening tackle..............that's what I LOVE about our sport), to going out and carrying out acts of violence (that's what I hate about our sport).

Wigan got what they deserved....losers medals.

But don't you think maybe Warrington lack some of those things and thats why we weren't in the Grand Final.

Last week there were a lot of threads about how we needed someone with more 'mongrel' in the team and it would be good to have had Gareth Hock to bring on midway through the first half when we were being bullied by the Wigan pack.

And then threads saying we should sign Hock for next season, TS could get the best out of him.

What is it that we expect Hock would bring? I don't think it's going to be calm inspirational leadership is it.

Hock would bring us stuff like Flower brought Wigan. Get in an opponents face, intimidate him and smash his face in. If people can't handle that and want to moralise about what Flower did then I suggest we don't sign Hock else there is going to be outrage on here next year when the first Hock 'incident' happens.

...and there, I agree with you, Sally.

We've not had any "mongrel" in us for YEARS
Yes, Morley NEVER took a backward step for us, but, he's toned his act down, a la Boyd in the 80's.
Carvell was a beast, but never a nasty bugger. Just a beast.
Woody never had that to his game. Likewise Hill.

We need a bit of "edge", but on the right side of legal. Hopefully, we'll get that with Sims.

Hock is just an absolute no-no. His cards marked with EVERYONE.
He's gone past the pantomime villain stage. Pantomime villains don't gouge, or charge (twice) into referees. He's an accident waiting to happen, and I for one, hope we swerve him, despite what a great player he CAN be.

Let's get one thing straight. I DON'T WANT OUR PLAYERS SMASHING OTHER'S FACES IN. I want us to win hard, but fair. I can cope with (just about) boring, but fair, just not illegal.

Mrs Goldblatt just asked me what happened in the rugby last night, as she missed the game. I "undeleted" the Skybox and showed her the opening 3 mins of last nights match. Bearing in mind she was a Wilderspool regular in the 90's, she was a little aghast as to last night's events.

Well thats true, when we had Morley and Carvell in the team, nobody was complaining that we needed someone like Hock to stop us getting 'bullied'.

I don't remember ever hearing any Wire fans complaining about us being bullied when we had Morley and Carvell and they didn't go round smashing peoples faces in.

I would also have been interested to see how Ben Flower would have reacted if the wild forearm from Hohaia had come from Morley or Carvell. Everyone says he saw the red mist, he "didn't have time to think before he reacted".I bet he would have had time to think if he was tempted to smash either of those two in the face.

I am conscious that replying to your own post on an internet forum on a Saturday night isn't necessarily a healthy sign, but during the Eng v Samoa game today it was good to see a split screen when they showed a replay and play was continuing. Please do this next season too Sky.

Completely agree

I like that the sky team are at least in time with the commentary and the picture on view. Unlike Premier/BBC where the commentary was 2 secs ahead of the action!

....speaking of commentary I'd swap Vossy for Eddie but no way would I trade Stevo for Sterling....he is complete shat. 
On 2 or 3 occasions Stirling eluding to the lightness of the ball as an excuse for the Aussie defeat!!!
Perhaps it was full of helium?
Perhaps the ballboys had been nobbled to switch the ball depending on who was in attack.
(any reference to Brian Noble being a part of operation yew tree is purely incidental)

Have I missed it or was there no SL Season Review on Sky this year? I usually enjoy watching it over the holiday as a taster for the new season

Cutbacks on BskyB I think.
The SL Chatback was definitely cut but it wasn't a big budget programme so perhaps I'm talk poop.