Bit unfair really. I think we do put the effort in but we have weaknesses & not just the ones that get thrown up on the forum all the time. The facts indicate that, at the moment, we are the 5th best team in Super League. We could lose to anyone & probably beat anyone.

Beat anyone apart from Wigan or saints..

Probably right. But ... on a one off???
I think Wigan are best at the moment but 5 weeks back I thought Catalan. So who knows.

I still think we are better than 20/1. Were only 1 player off Feb/Mar.

One off at Wigan in a cup game 2 months back couldn't even beat beat a team that were reduced to twelve players after 5 minutes...hope your right as regarding a one off..but I'm not confident with this rabble...

The problem is that we need to pull successive big performances out of the bag - something we’ve never been able to do - our last play off win we did it against Saints in 2018 (I had to check twice that it was that long ago!), couldn’t back it up the week after.

We need to put ourselves in a position to not need to pull miracles out of the hat - although that’s much easier said than done!

You are right ...it is a bit unfair as it only some not all who have lacked passion and drive in the aftermath of mcguire ..But for those players,it's not unfair when Gary chambers has talked about expectations in regards to effort from here on being a minimum ... It's really clear from that observation that effort issues have been recognised

We played so badly that game but we all must have thought that we'd scored at the end in the right corner ... but it was forward. I'm not confident either but I have watched enough rugby to realise that strange things can happen. No one would have predicted our start to the season.

The 1/4 final performance was so bad from Warrington at Wigan, I wouldn’t argue against it being the catalyst for the next 3 months of shattered confidence.

This has been a repeated problem with Warrington sides. It happened under Price too. When we start to get into a rut we can't get out of it and we get mired in bad form for ages.

It's because we have a complete lack of leaders in the squad. We don't have the characters who can step up and turn round a losing situation, either during a game or in a run of form.

So this is why every year we get people on here saying "if you look at our squad in terms of ability there's not much between us and Saints" but every year we are a million miles away from Saints in results.

When you have a side that folds and gets mired in to runs of bad form and can't get out of them, you've got the wrong players if you want to compete for the Grand Final. You can make excuses and say "it's just confidence...everybody gets affected by losing/when the crowd is on their backs..." ok sure, but the type of players who will win a Grand Final won't be.

I remember seeing Jamie Peacock once talking about Bradford's last title winning season in 2005. Their mid season form was up and down and they were getting stick from the fans and media and when the pressure was really building they went to Wakefield and Wakey stuck 60 points on them. It was the lowest point that Bradford team had ever been in. Peacock and a group of other senior players got the squad together and basically said this is how we're going to turn this around and they became a juggernaut for the rest of that season who smashed everybody on the way to winning the Grand Final. After that year, a lot of those senior players (including Peacock) moved to other clubs and Bradford never got close again.

We saw other seasons where Leeds or Wigan had embarrassing defeats mid season and their fans were demanding McDermott/Wane get sacked. By the end of the season they were winning the Grand Final (often against us). But in our case, we respond to a setback by being poop for the next 10 weeks.

The other thing with that Bradford team in 2005 was that there were lots of players moving on at the end of that season (Peacock, Pryce,Paul Radford). They had signed Harris and we're going through a battle with Leeds about compensation. Then at the tail end of the season they bring Morley in meaning one of the regular forwards was going to miss out on selection towards the end of season.
They still managed to pull together to lift the SL trophy.
If we went through that sort of disruption in a season I think it would be like a 1990's England batting collapse.

Plenty of teams have had major disruption in a season. Look at Wigan in 2018 when there was the Tomkins brothers incident. They were both suspended, I think Joel was shortly off to Hull KR and Sam to Catalan with Shaun Wane being replaced at the end of the season. Yet they still had enough to lift the big one.

Adversity doesn't have to be a good excuse why things fall apart. It can be a reason that there is a risilliance and determination to succeed against the odds.

Well you never know maybe this lot has the leaders/motivation to turn this around. Vaughan/Chambers/Williams might be the people to inspire this bunch. This Super League does not take much winning.