Aren't Saints and Wire about 10 miles apart and yet you're going to watch from behind the sofa. Call yourself a fan. Get yourself there and shout for them. They need all the encouragement they can get.

I am going to single out Ratchford here.
So Thewlis fails to collect a bomb and we concede a drop out but then there was great work to bundle Yaha into touch to regain possession and straight after Clark conceded the dubious penalty. Ratchford questions the ref and goes off shaking his head. It is all one way traffic after that. Now he did something similar against Hull KR last year just before mikey lewis chipped over the top. It is that leadership element that really disappoints me. Hill was similar when he was captain, questioning the ref and walking off shaking his head.
So what does that do to the mentality of the rest of the team. I can't remember a successful team when senior players would do that. I am sure Sinfield questioned a few dodgy calls but would have had a word with the team telling them to dig in not walking off shaking his head with the aura of defeat.
Before that we weren't great but there was a bit of fight in us (bundling Yaha into touch being an example) but after that penalty we collapsed.
Dont get me wrong, Hill, Cooper, Ratchford are very good players but do we see the qualities that senior leadership players at successful teams possess in motivating the rest of the team.
Sinfield, Peacock, O'Laughlin, Roby. I can give you a list as long as your arm of players who would never give reactions like Ratchford did. Watch the replay just after the Busquet try shortly after and then his reaction to the ref signalling a T to send up the video ref for the Dudson try. Ratchford actually puts his head in his hands.
I am sure people will say I am reading too much into it but the on field leadership at this club has been shocking for some time and has to change. I can accept a defeat in perpignan but not the collapse in the last 15 mins.

I’m sick of transition periods. It feels like we’re constantly waiting for something good just around the corner. That’s why the atmosphere has died in the stadium. The section I sit in is deserted - I can walk all the way to the end of my row without asking anybody to stand up now.

I was planning to watch the game on catch-up when I got home yesterday evening but accidentally spotted the score and didn’t bother.

Saints and Wigan seem to be able to change coaches and key players and keep on winning. We are no closer to success than a decade ago.

Nope, body language, professionalism it's a big thing.

Remember when moz was captain, he was a hard ass on players bending over in training when tired, it was a big no no

Sit in

(Who said that?)

I think it is a bit harsh to look at one player. The physical effort to keep bigger & stronger men took its toll. Line up our boys and compare them physically with the opposition ... that is the problem.

A little unfair on Ratchford but the overall point is a good one. We are a bunch of individual players, most of whom are (can be) good players. But there is no leadership, no confidence, no passion. It's a tough time to be a Wire.

Agreed Smiffy, this is not about A player. We were lucky to make our 40 on kick returns. This was at least in part a size issue. What little headway we could make diminished as the game went on as the tank emptied, resulting in the final collapse.
What i cant grasp is the lack of any plan in attack. Wasn’t that why Powell was brought in? I understand the constant enforced change in the halves hasn’t helped, but there should be a system in place that the replacements are aware of?
Ratchford obviously not fully fit hence Matautia kicking,
Having said that no single player is to blame i will say this. Powell brought in both Holmes and Matautia, KF can not be blamed for them. Holmes has been a passenger in my view and I have yet to be convinced that Matautia offers much as a centre. What worries me is that if that is the level of his recruitment with players he knows very well, how hit and miss will his future targets be?
I am currently struggling to find any positives at present, which is most unlike me. (Ok, apart from Thewlis and Wrench).

All the young players are good, but how good we don't know yet.

It’s a fair analogy.
At this time, it takes a very special person to lift a team when so demoralised.
How much would it cost to get Mozza out there as water carrier?

The problem with Holmes & matautia is that they’re not necessarily bad players but, they’re only handy to have around when the team are on a roll and playing good rugby. At the minute we’re not doing that and the team are on the back foot a lot. I don’t believe these two (especially Holmes) are the type to dig in and put the hard graft in. Therefore they’re looking like poor signing at the minute.

I think it could be the oft mentioned small team bias.

They look good in a castleford, playing a role, their best is probably OK.

They're not gonna come here and necessarily set a high bar or improve others.

I said last year, and several times this. I never saw anything about holmes or massey but baz n tez used to flagilate themselves senseless during sky games

I like Matautia. Big and tough too ... and we need them. For what it is worth he's probably our toughest player. Lovely pass for our try.
I realise he does this shuffle across field bit that gets a bit annoying but generally he hits it up well. I'd like more players his size.

Do you mean the Matautia at Saints? Our one is strong but he really isn't very big.

I'm usually a Ratchford defender but I agree with the points about his body language last night and he had a pretty quiet game otherwise. He did make a couple of half breaks but we don't seem to back up at all down the middle unless Walker is on the field.