atkins!

"Consistently breaks the rules".

Yup, thats Sam.

Apologies. I wish I'd written 'bends'. Cause that arm clamp he did for a season and a half was very classy. As is his milking of penalties or the vs he flipped this year.

And it isn't like he is a good leader or, despite what pie in the sky thinker phil clarke says, a very good fullback.

When Allan Langer played for us every tackle he made involved using his foot to trip the ball carrier. But the refs didn't dare do anything because it was known as a "Langer trademark" in Aus.

I quite like the bad boy in Sam.

Think of Morley at a comparable age, he hadn't made a tackle below the neck yet. Same with Kohe-Love.

As for flipping the Vs didn't Matt King make the ham shanker gesture to his own fans?

The way some people go on they want every player to be a goody two shoes like Phil Clarke was.

probables vs possibles

you are right. I was questiong the notion that people who don't want chase in the team and those that boo sam aren't both justified. I don't feel too strongly on the issue. I have made my feelings on chase clear and I don't think sam is a very good fullback (my opinion)

You readily admit in your post that these players weren't liked for their attitudes/ dirty antics in the game. I don't remember the feeling in the air at the time of morley as a youngster (before aus) but as the only english man (and the only relevent example on this point) I remember him being a great lewader (12 sewcond sending off aside) for his country. This something sam hasn't yet develeoped.

JD, genuine question, why don't you think Sam is a very good fullback?

Attacking wise he hasn't been matched this year, and defensively while he has the odd shake it's a lot less often than other players across the league.

he'll never be a good fullback until he leaves wigan until then he's just scummy boo'able rat boy

My opinion of sam has never been a secret and I think I have a firm grounding for my assertions. I will list, quickly;

His defence, I feel, is more than shaky.
I don't trust him under a highball (he is no wellens of brett)
He does not pass... Ever
Thus he does not provide a pivot
I think he moves like a crab further than he moves forwards (usually to no advantage)
I have said he is only effective with his attack in severly broken defence; against lower table teams.
He is as wet as water and slips over or falls to the floor after the slightest touch
... I think there is more but I am taking too long to type this out.

If I was in charge of england rl, I would try lomax there and see how he does.

I think this year sam is a shoe in cause there is no one else challenging but there could easily be a lomax or a riley who can challenge him next year.

To be fair to jd, there are enough Wiganers squabbling on Cherry'n'White board (currently 6 pages) with the same arguement

I trust him under a highball, I'd wager he's had less clangers than Brett this year. He's had 3 less errors than Hodgson in 1 game more.

He does pass, how else do you get 18 assists? He could maybe pass more, but to say he doesn't pass at all is ridiculous.

Only effective against lower table teams? With the exception of the last few weeks (when he's been carrying an injury), some of his best games have been against the top sides. Just look at last seasons grand final as a prime example.

Only goes laterally when he has the ball? How has he got 169 tackle busts? 67 more than anyone else in the league. Never mind getting the 2nd most metres in the entire league.

I think the last few weeks have shown how much Tomkins does as a pivot, when he hasn't been fully fit + firing Wigan have a lot less options, and create noticeably less overlaps without him joining in as that extra man.

I won't squabble over this and I don't understand your religious devotion to him. I would like to clear things up. Ultimately, I am frustrated with sam. It is clear he has a lot of pace and an eye for a gap however, whether it is due to poor coaching or (as much as I doubt it) big headedness on his part he is not as devastating at fullback as I would hope.

I may show some lack of knowledge here but my idea of a fullback is a bomb disposer and making yards on the catch. Of course play making and a good kicking game are helpful but not vital.

I would like to point out my lack of faith in statistics and I don't want to say sam is an awful player. I just want a more reliable fullback.

I fear we will just bicker in a tit for tat pattern over the specifics but sam has been anonymous against warrington x2 in the league, against sts x2 in the league (exlcuding x2 in POs) and apart from a kick at leeds almost anomymous there. In fact it wasn't till hull had knocked themselves out that he was able to put them to the sword (and that was when he was fresh) at hull.

You can not honestly say you are happy with sam's passing game afyter he has made a yard or two, can you? He has thrown away so many chances through trying to force something he physically can't do.

Finally, as lefty (??) Says, there are many pies going back on their claim sam is the best FB in the world. I have been impressed with riley recently. Obviously that isn't enough to give him the pos but he has recently shown up brett and is safe under a high ball, makes good yards and is a great passer and finisher. Similiar story with lomax. However both haven't been given the proper run out.

I look forward to sam tearing up the aussies arrises but I fear it may be some time till he reaches anywhere near his potential.

well done jd.....you appear to be wrong on almost all of your points.

easily the best fullback in SL this season... by some distance as well.