we have finished top of the league,so yes we have won the league.The play offs is extension of the league,with different trophy on offer.So i see it as two seperate competions,we have won one but not other yet.

Are you stupid? We've finished top so we have won the league. The same as if you finish top in football you win the league.

To make it a little easier for you, the clue is in the name LEAGUE Leaders Shield.

At last, the voice of reason.

The GF (the Premiership in another name) is another competition

There will be a final league table, come 5 p.m. today
Warrington will be top of it
so....by my (and any other sensible poster's) reckoning...WE WON THE LEAGUE

IF (and it's a big if) we win on October 8th, we'll have won the Grand Final, too

It really is THAT simple.

As I sad, denial is such a dirty word.

Isn't it funny that no Cas/Bradford/Cru's fans have come on here, saying we haven't won the league.

Jealousy, like denial, is a dirty word, too.

By that reckoning we have won at least 21 league titles rather than the 19 times we have been crowned Champions.

You have won the league LEADERS shield, not the league WINNERS shield. The history books will claim that in 2000 for example that St Helens won Super League and not Wigan, and that Leeds won it in 2008 and not St Helens.

I'm not jealous or in denial because as I have stated you SHOULD be the league winners and Champions, but under the rules.....you aren't.

No, by your reckoning, you have won 2 titles not 19. Cannae have it both ways.

Still think we have a crap attack and yours is better?

Indeed you have. Spanking the crap teams in the league and scoring against the leagues top defences however is a different matter.

The top 5 defences in the league belong to Wire, Us, Saints, Hull and Huddersfield. Points scored against those sides is as follows:

Saints - Wire 60 (av 30) Wigan 94 (av 23.5)
Hudds - Wire 56 (av 18.6) wigan 66 (av 33)
Hull - Wire 10 (av 10) wigan 44 (av 22)
Wigan - Wire 48 (av 24)
Wire - Wigan 50 (av 25)

So, as you can see. You have only managed to score (or average) more points against St Helens. We have outscored you by 10 points against Hudds despite playing 1 game less than you and having a weak team without our top scorers Sam and Richards in one of those.

So, as inside man said, you're attack is much better against Harlequins.

By you're reckoning, YES, you've won 21 league titles...well done. See, I'm not in denial

BTW, the history books will show that Leeds won the GRAND FINAL in 2008, well done to them, and well done to Stains for winning the league that year.

I'm man enough to admit it, shame you're not.

A week goes by, and you're still putting up excuses.

Phil Clarke will probably come up with a stat something like "at least 50% of tries come off mistakes, penalties conceeded by the opposition". In my book, that's the mark of a good side (FFS, Wigan won many trophies by these methods in their glory years of the late eighties-mid nineties)
Now that we're doing this on a regular basis, it seems like a "dirty" thing to do, winning games by having tries gifted to us.

Wiganners........you can't beat 'em (pity)

No excuses at all. You were the better side and beat us fair and square. Harrison Hansen dropping the ball into the arms of Mike Monaghan and Briers kick hitting Tommy and landing back in his arms were two gifts whichever way you look at them. The rest were good tries.

Every team has bit a lady luck during the course of the season.

Successful sides always grab 'jammy' tries, just look at Saints over the years!

Yes I do and it's fair enough that sports fans regard themselves as part of a family that includes other fans and the players.

However, when you start getting into petty arguments with fans of other clubs about the respective successes of the clubs it's worth remembering that none of the fans have achieved anything, and they just make themselves look a bit sad. Players always respect each other...do you think the Wigan players will be telling the Warrington players 'you aven't won the title yet, you've just won the hubcap'? No they will respect their fellow pros because they've been on the pitch and taken the hits.

Can you imagine what the players think if they come on and read these forums, they must just think half the people on here are a load of sad acts who've never achieved anything in their lives.

In that case, all those cups won by Wigan (in the time spectrum I mentioned) were all due to gifted tries, because let's face it, that's were they got a huge amount of victories from.

You can't have it both ways

KEEP DIGGING

Don't forget Finch putting in Joel with a cracking defence splitting pass

IMO opinion, the Wire fans that are saying they've already won the league are just lying to themselves and belittling what is probably going to be their own achievement in winning the grand final. What are those fans going to say then? They will have likely just celebrated the hardest they've celebrated in their lives, yet by their reckoning, they've just won a 3 game competition in which they started with an advantage and got to pick one of their opponents.
Finishing 1st is a fantastic achievement and one to be proud of, but you haven't wont the league yet and I suspect that song will stay around unless you do win the GF, because whether you like it or not, it is fact. Just see which picture will be on the highlights reel next season... Wire parading the LLS, or whoever hoisting the super league trophy above their heads at Old Trafford?