Yes. It was not fair of me to include a Hub Cap in a treble when I don't, personally, class it as a significant achievement for the purposes of the post, so I edited it.

Anyway I get it. You believe LLS and making finals and losing signifies a good achievement, I don't. We are allowed to have different views. I would suggest though, based on the posts on here, not many share your view whereas on Facebook some seem to.

Some more fantastic Smithisms in the media from SportingLife:

The two coaches, when asked about the importance of Saturday's game, and the implications of losing:

" Wane will not allow himself to think about the consequences of another loss this weekend. He said: 'It is unthinkable. Lose a quarter-final, semi-final, and you're not going to Wembley. To lose this Saturday you wouldn't contemplate it'. "

" Wolves boss Smith, who has been under the greater pressure, said: 'It changes nothing either way, win or loss'. "

Has this apathy and mindset filtered down to the players over the last few seasons? Is it an intentional tactic to put the players under less pressure? Because it damn well didn't work in the two finals last year.

I've become quite annoyed with his downplaying of the widnes games over the years, i think i hit my limit during the game they beat us with 12 men. Again, as above, you wouldn't hear Wane downplaying a match against a rival team like that.

I don't deny that. I was asked why I didn't include it in my post and I answered.

I read that, but, then you tried to validate your stance by referring to other posters on here and pressing your point using 'Facebooker's'.

I know it's a Smith Out thread but I wonder whether the fans of say Castleford or Wakefield agree that Leeds 'only' won the treble?

I don't need to validate my stance to anyone. It's just my opinion and that's what forums are for. I posted the facts on last 5 years CC and GF winners and how we compare. Not my fault it makes uncomfortable reading.

I don't know why you seem to pick up on my posts so frequently. If you don't agree then fine. If you want a debate, post some facts that counter my argument. I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

Leeds won the treble, not the double, that's a fact. If you're going to state facts then at least get them right and not manipulate them to suit your argument or agenda.

If we had of beaten Hull at Wembley and Wigan at Old Trafford last year as well as finishing top, would you not be acknowledging the LLS and the treble then? Or would it just have been the double in your eyes?

I don't deny that you or anyone else has a right to post their opinion and agree that is what forums are for. So whether I agree with your or others opinions matters not, in fact I think that it is a positive thing that we all don't share the same opinion every time on every subject.

However, where we might disagree is that I feel that it is important now and again to validate your opinion otherwise the argument has little chance of reaching the level of a debate. I think that it is a bit unbalanced to get your Collins English Pocket Dictionary out and post a definition of barren then discount certain successes as not up to your mark to maintain your position.

I don't understand why you included the Challenge Cup you could have gone for the GF 'jugular', or started your clock at 2012 instead of at the start of Smith's tenure, unless it didn't make our reading quite so uncomfortable? I could post some facts based on Smiths tenure and include the LLS but I don't think that would cut the mustard with you, or as you state quite a few others on here.

FWIW I think that the current TS regime has now run its race. At the moment I'm unsure whether that's him and Agar going, or him getting in different help say a Briers/Morley combo, I suppose that depends on how much truth there is in the lost dressing room rumour?

Finally, I do pick up on your posts quite frequently, mainly on the basis that you post frequently, you are opinionated and generally include some 'facts' which is all good (not that you need my validation of course). We may have even ended up at the same place on this subject it's just that our 'journey' has taken a different route particularly the timing and measure of our dissatisfaction.

The lls is a trophy and makes up a double but most clubs would have it as their 3rd choice trophy. If we won the gf and lls that has more presteige than either individually as undisputed best team in the league over one game and a season.

The reality is we've only made it to 33% of the gf's available to us under smith and lost 100% of those gf we have reached facts and stats can be presented in a way to suit an argument but they are facts that show that we've not really progressed under smith whatsoever the cc wins should have been a springboard into a period of dominance but it's as if the club felt they had reached their goals or were happy with a few cc wins and smith had got himself a job for life.

He should have gone at the end of last season on a relative high with winning the lls but yet again failing in two more finals! I enjoyed the first period of his time with us as there was always a feeling we could win the gf and the old saying there's always next year but last few seasons that feeling we willl win it or are even close tobeinningbthe grand final anybanything other than that is not acceptable don't need to sack a coach every time we misss out on it but I want to get the impression that the club fans and staff are not 100% happy with anything other than a gf win!

That pretty much sums it up. I think there's a slight chance we could win another Challenge Cup with Smith, but an absolute zero chance of ever winning a grand final. I also feel we'll be having one okay season followed by a nagf season followed by an okay season, and so on... and we'll all be on here making excuses and staying next year things will be better. And fans of other clubs will still laugh.

I'm resigned to the fact that nothing will change though for a long time. The old boys club will see to that. In the meantime I'll just enjoy watching Evans and Pomeroy fight it out for that centre spot. Exhilarating.

Please don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you what to do. I presented the facts on GF and CC wins to show how woeful we have been. I am perfectly entitled to do that. As you re perfectly entitled to convince yourself they were great achievements.

OK fair enough. I picked the period of 5 years as it was the period since the last time we won a major trophy and it's probably a period in which we would have thought, back then in 2012, that we would in all likelihood win a GF in.

I was a massive Smith fan when he joined, and he had great success in the first 4 years. But the midas touch has long, long since gone.

For balance I have included the other clubs GF CC and WCC appearances and LLS, in the same period. Wins are shown in bold. I'm not sure this improves the position for Warrington.

Wigan - SL, SL CC, WCC, LLS, GF GF GF GF CF WCCF WCCF Domestic double.
Leeds - SL, SL CC CC WCC, GF GF CF CF WCCF WCCF WCCF Domestic treble.
St Helens - SL, LLS, GF. WCCF
Hull - 1CC, CCF CCF
Warrington - LLS. GF GF GF, CCF
Huddersfield - LLS
Castelford - CCF
Hull KR - CCF