Shaun Wane, like him or loath him, he wears his cherry and white heart on his sleeve and expects nothing more than his players to give 100%.
He publicly shows his dissatisfaction if he doesn't get that.

If a player puts in an effort that is way short of his expectations on or off the field, Wane knows the fans are not stupid and would have seen it too. Wane is not afraid to single him out, state the obvious and then drop him or at least threaten to do so if things don't improve to the standard he knows a player can do, like Charnley for example.

Wane nips things in the bud at the point of attention.
TS as I see it, seems to do almost exactly the opposite.
TS is slower to address his post match reviews. Keen only to point out the individual positives not being drawn on the individual stand out poor performance.

TS is unwilling to drop his senior core players if they have a bad game, preferring to allowing them to continue weeks to months before they regain something like what we expect, like Atkins for example.

Rather than nipping things in the bud and dropping or threatening to drop the under standard player after one or two continuous games, in the case of a less senior player, TS prefers to ship him out to another club.
Wouldn't that affect an individual's confidence? Wouldn't it make it harder for that player to play himself back into the team?
Wouldn't it make it harder for Smith to recall that player into the team?

Two very different approaches from Wane and TS. I'm not saying which is correct but unfortunately bias cannot sway my post from looking like I'm leaning towards a cherry and white style.

This is true, our only chance of silverware for years has been the CC, thankfully we have won three recently. The mentality for going the full season we have shown once in the mid 90's and once in 2011 between our CC victories. Leeds having been in more GF's than you shake a stick at and Wigan generally winning one when they get there.

Sadly i stated to the guys i stand with, that our squad would not win a GF because of the mentality thing. Am i correct in thinking that only Morley and M Monas had won a GF? How many of the Wigan team last year had won one? i think like us a couple? therefore why could a couple of there players/coaches spur them on.

Personally the look of things on the pitch leads me to believe that there is something wrong behind the scenes? Losing such quality and replacing with such poor quality cannot help players state of mind.

Briers having to stop should not have come as a surprise, he went to 5 specialist's through the year and was told the same news by each one. Therefore after the second/third the alarm bells should have gone off. Shortly after the altercation Briers had with Ablett at the HJ he and the staff knew what was coming.

Asotasi could be swapped at any local open age amateur club for one of their starting props, i doubt we would be worse off

Before anyone points it out, the arithmetic in my earlier post isn't the best! But in my defence it was 6.30am.

Snaggletooth, what concerned me was seeing how players were entering and leaving the field without acknowledging each other at times. I'm hoping it's just the culture shock of no longer being able to go into these games expecting a win, rather than something that runs deeper.

I was rather perplexed when after the Saints game in round one, the players were taken to Leeds for a meal as a 'team building exercise'. Isn't that what three weeks in Australia was supposed to be all about?

They touched on this on Super League Backchat last night, but as I was in the process of switching off the TV to go to bed (I was recording the programme), I didn't see the full segment.

Did anybody watch it and if so, what were Studd/Irvine/Stevo's thoughts on the situation?

Leeds fans probably have a little more class than we do as well. A couple of years ago when they had Brian Mcdermott in his first year and Brent webb on his way out being replaced by a skinny ordinary centre from the championship, and they had forwards of the calibre of Richard Moore They didnt even question Mcdermott they knew he was the right man for the job even after watching him take the london side from 7th to 9th then 11th in consecutive seasons...

never doubted him.........we should be like them.

Something has gone sour in the club. It could be the personnel changes etc?

On the field we have had three wingers partnering the same centre, has anything changed?

We have a low effort prop?


We have halves that clearly have no confidence or no idea? We have some outstanding forwards putting in 110% every week with nothing to show for it.

Something has to change.

If every morning you put coffee and milk in a cup then add boiling water you get white coffee this will happen every time without fail. I think our problems go deeper as we have made changes but sadly got the same result.

I am no coach, but i can see/feel sonmething is wrong. If the team building in Aus and Leeds hasnt worked then we need to look deeper, we have gone beyond lacking confidence and/or quality.

Something is not right but I still have faith that TS can get it right and have a feeling he has a few signings up his sleeve for next year to give the club the boost it needs.

I'd be tempted to give Moz another season. I'd bet he'd want out of Salford. He is low key but he has been exceptionally reserved considering he is the Salford skipper.
We know how to wrap him up in cotton wool to get mpg out of him.
BUT it's his attitude and example that is missing from Warrington I reckon.

This 'mentality' point gets overdone IMO.

Warrington hadn't been in any major finals for nearly 2 decades and we won our first three in a row despite the theory that "you have to lose one to win one".

We have played Leeds the bastions of big game strength in 3 major finals, won 2 lost 1.

Our overall record in major finals under Tony Smith is won 3 lost 2. Factors of luck will influence any one individual game you can only really judge fair conclusions from looking at a bigger sample of games where you would expect luck on the upside and downside to even out over time.

Last year's Grand Final for instance, people talk about Wigan's great big game mental strength over ours, but how come they were getting panned before we lost Monaghan and Ratchford? Sure they came back and ran the tries in when we had a completely disrupted backline, but had Monaghan and Ratchford been on the pitch, do you think Wigan were going to put on a great comeback and turn us over? We will never know, but my money is on no.

t.co/agWfyzMtaF Matty Russell talking about him speaking to Tony Smith & Simon Moran about the plans for the future before signing his new deal.

t.co/agWfyzMtaF Matty Russell talking about him speaking to Tony Smith & Simon Moran about the plans for the future before signing his new deal.

In this week's Guardian Smith (again) talks about youngsters whilst glossing over the fact that senior players are not up to scratch. Found myself wondering, why does Russell not fall into the ease him in gently catagory? I'm a tad worried about over relying on him- people seem to forget his age.

I agree GO, he's an exciting prospect and should be regarded as such and given time to grow into his position.

We can simplistically blame all of our ills on Briers's retirement, but, in addition and in the case of Russell playing with a misfiring/injured first choice back line with shuffling HB's and no settled wng/centre combinations then I feel a bit sorry for the lad.

Although given his age and relative inexperience his attitude does seem to be first class so no olong term worries from me

Russell has his negatives but they are things that can be coached out of him. Plus he gives his all every game and you can never fault that in a player.

I have to assume that this is 'Cinnamon-like' irony. Leeds fans were apoplectic about McDermott right until the day he won them the GF against us.

This