FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Tony Smith - England
86 posts in 7 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9679No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
42175_1290030542.gif
[img:2b6g88ns]http://news.google.co.uk/news/tbn/ryI1dIYrb1oJ[/img:2b6g88ns]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42175.gif



Quote: Phuzzy "Wrong in what way? Most criticism I read came in the light of some poor decisions he made. They must have been poor as he, himself, has chosen to correct them. You can't have it both ways. Either the decisions were wrong and therefore deserving of criticism, or he's got it wrong now by changing his original correct decisions.

Having said that, all credit to him for having the strength to make the neccessary calls. Well done Tony!

Just one other thing; from your comment above I take it, should England get beat on Saturday, that you'll be visiting the Wigan and Saints board to tell us what a crap coach TS is and how you got it wrong? Thought not.

C'Mon England (and TS!
He got loads of stick for not playing Tomkins against France on here which led to the likes of Odemwingie claiming he was a disgrace and had ruined Englands chances well OTT after one bloody game.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach74No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2009Jan 1970LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Phuzzy "Wrong in what way? Most criticism I read came in the light of some poor decisions he made. They must have been poor as he, himself, has chosen to correct them. You can't have it both ways. Either the decisions were wrong and therefore deserving of criticism, or he's got it wrong now by changing his original correct decisions.

Having said that, all credit to him for having the strength to make the neccessary calls. Well done Tony!

Just one other thing; from your comment above I take it, should England get beat on Saturday, that you'll be visiting the Wigan and Saints board to tell us what a crap coach TS is and how you got it wrong? Thought not.

C'Mon England (and TS!
He's a good club coach and crap international coach, he hasnt got a clue, were going to get drubbed every game...mindless stuff like that.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: Wire_85 "He got loads of stick for not playing Tomkins against France on here which led to the likes of Odemwingie claiming he was a disgrace and had ruined Englands chances well OTT after one bloody game.'"


But surely that's a decision that comes unde the heading 'one he got wrong', given he has seen fit to correct it and has played Tomkins ever since? In which case, wasn't the criticism justified?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2972
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2023Jun 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
19301_1320335935.jpg
[quote="Rob_Wire":344rv4oa] :lol: :lol: Best thread for ages on here![/quote:344rv4oa] [quote="Tin Soldier":344rv4oa]Reply of the year. :lol: :lol:[/quote:344rv4oa]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19301.jpg



Quote: Phuzzy "But surely that's a decision that comes unde the heading 'one he got wrong', given he has seen fit to correct it and has played Tomkins ever since? In which case, wasn't the criticism justified?'"


Don't come on here with your well-reasoned argument - it won't cut much ice, more's the pity.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: Dirtbag "He's a good club coach and crap international coach, he hasnt got a clue, were going to get drubbed every game...mindless stuff like that.'"


Well again, to be fair, up to that point his performances as coach in both the World Cup and up to last weeks game in this competition (remember we lost to the Aussies and played poorly against France) suggested this was the case. Even now, we have only had one good win in this comp. Perhaps if we win the tournament, there would be an argument to say he's proved his critics wrong... but after 1 win? Personally I like the way he seems to be addressing the problems as they come up (ineffectual half back pairing and the shocking right side defense for example) but I think it's too early to say he's 'proven' himself as an International coach after just one complete performance.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9679No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
42175_1290030542.gif
[img:2b6g88ns]http://news.google.co.uk/news/tbn/ryI1dIYrb1oJ[/img:2b6g88ns]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42175.gif



Quote: Phuzzy "But surely that's a decision that comes unde the heading 'one he got wrong', given he has seen fit to correct it and has played Tomkins ever since? In which case, wasn't the criticism justified?'"


Is calling Tony Smith a disgrace to the game because he didnt select Tomkins for one game justified criticism?

I think not.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: Wire_85 "Is calling Tony Smith a disgrace to the game because he didnt select Tomkins for one game justified criticism?

I think not.'"


I think that criticism was, not for leaving Tomkins out, but the manner in which it was done. A coach, more so an International one who is given the charge of (in this case) young players from other clubs, should hold as paramount the well being of those players. To 'rubbish' a young players achievements in the way he did in order to justify his decision to drop him was in my, and many other people's opinion, a dereliction of his duty as England coach. For that reason I feel the criticism was justified. You, of course, may feel differently (although if you do, I suggest you would hold a different view if the player in question was from your club and the coach, say, Brian Noble). Whether you agree or not however, the one thing you can't claim is that having that viewpoint is 'wrong'.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach815No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2019Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
15427.jpg
:15427.jpg



Quote: Phuzzy "Well again, to be fair, up to that point his performances as coach in both the World Cup and up to last weeks game in this competition (remember we lost to the Aussies and played poorly against France) suggested this was the case. Even now, we have only had one good win in this comp. Perhaps if we win the tournament, there would be an argument to say he's proved his critics wrong... but after 1 win? Personally I like the way he seems to be addressing the problems as they come up (ineffectual half back pairing and the shocking right side defense for example) but I think it's too early to say he's 'proven' himself as an International coach after just one complete performance.'"


Why 1 win?

I thought we beat France and New Zealand which is 2 wins on my calculator.

Are you using Maurice's old one?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: Stinky Turner "Why 1 win?

I thought we beat France and New Zealand which is 2 wins on my calculator.

Are you using Maurice's old one?'"


Ok. After 1 good win.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9679No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
42175_1290030542.gif
[img:2b6g88ns]http://news.google.co.uk/news/tbn/ryI1dIYrb1oJ[/img:2b6g88ns]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42175.gif



Quote: Phuzzy "I think that criticism was, not for leaving Tomkins out, but the manner in which it was done. A coach, more so an International one who is given the charge of (in this case) young players from other clubs, should hold as paramount the well being of those players. To 'rubbish' a young players achievements in the way he did in order to justify his decision to drop him was in my, and many other people's opinion, a dereliction of his duty as England coach. For that reason I feel the criticism was justified. You, of course, may feel differently (although if you do, I suggest you would hold a different view if the player in question was from your club and the coach, say, Brian Noble). Whether you agree or not however, the one thing you can't claim is that having that viewpoint is 'wrong'.'"


Tomkins was always going to play against the Aussies most people knew that (apart a few who decided sulk about the France game all week) Myler scored two tries in the game some Wigan fans were sure we would act the way they had if he didnt make the Aussie game we didn't, for me Wigan fans took what TS said to heart because hes your great hope for the future its a view I doubt they would have and be so offended by if he didnt play for your team.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach74No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2009Jan 1970LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Phuzzy "Ok. After 1 good win.'"


Also swept the Kiwis a few years back...I take it you haven't watched the game for long.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach649No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200817 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2013Aug 2013LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
37595.jpg
build it and they will come:37595.jpg



Quote: Phuzzy "But surely that's a decision that comes unde the heading 'one he got wrong', given he has seen fit to correct it and has played Tomkins ever since? In which case, wasn't the criticism justified?'"


why did he get it wrong, game changed on mylers tries in 2nd half. he didnt miss a tackle so were did he have a bad game and can you say for certain he wouldnt have improved as the competition went on. for all you know he could have had good games against the aussies and kiwis. icon_cool.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: stubblesteve "why did he get it wrong, game changed on mylers tries in 2nd half. he didnt miss a tackle so were did he have a bad game and can you say for certain he wouldnt have improved as the competition went on. for all you know he could have had good games against the aussies and kiwis.
Then surely he would have stuck with him. icon_wink.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: Dirtbag "Also swept the Kiwis a few years back...I take it you haven't watched the game for long.'"


Beats one of the worst Kiwi touring sides ever and then follows it with the most abject WC campaign of all time. It all depends on your perspective really doesn't it?

FWIW I don't agee with the 'good club coach, crap international coach' tag. What I'm saying is, at the time he was getting criticism, it was a viewpoint that had some merit based on his record to that date.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5500
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png



Quote: Wire_85 "Tomkins was always going to play against the Aussies most people knew that (apart a few who decided sulk about the France game all week) Myler scored two tries in the game some Wigan fans were sure we would act the way they had if he didnt make the Aussie game we didn't, for me Wigan fans took what TS said to heart because hes your great hope for the future its a view I doubt they would have and be so offended by if he didnt play for your team.'"


Please explain how "most people knew" that Tomkins was "always going to play against the Aussies". Not only was it definitely not Smith's avowed intention but do you honestly believe that, had the Maguire/Myler ripped it up, that he would have broken that partnership up? I think that is revisionist opinion of the most one-eyed kind! Given that it was his preferred combination (he even said that the reason he played Myler was that we "needed someone to move this big ship around" and didn't think Tomkins, as more of a broken field runner was the man to do this) it's only those that think he can do no wrong that would even suggest this! Point me to one actual piece of evidence that this was the case (as opposed to someone just saying it because it suits their argument).

As for the 2nd part of the post; of course that's the case. I already pointed this out in the last post with the your player/Brian Noble scenario. That doesn't make it wrong though! I also think you're missing the point that the reason you're defending Smith in this instance is because he's your club coach! Faint whiff of hypocrisy there, don't you think?

86 posts in 7 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
86 posts in 7 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


3.994140625:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Recruitment rumours and links
Wires71
3513
43m
Transfer Talk V5
Trebor1
424
47m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Jake the Peg
3700
Recent
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5152
Recent
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40518
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Paladin Sports
orangeman
5
1m
Pre Season - 2025
giddyupoldfe
119
1m
England vs Samoa
NickyKiss
135
2m
Film game
karetaker
5152
3m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
3m
Ground Improvements
Slugger McBa
123
3m
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63012
5m
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
8m
Squad 2025
the fax in a
24
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Azul
8
TODAY
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
TODAY
Squad contract dates
Trojan Horse
12
TODAY
Paladin Sports
orangeman
5
TODAY
Magic Weekend
Wollo-Wollo-
2
TODAY
War of the Roses
matt_wire
16
TODAY
Dual Reg
PopTart
2
TODAY
Vagana
Scarlet Pimp
10
TODAY
2025 Kit
Wigan Bull
6
TODAY
2025 merchandise
18th Man
12
TODAY
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
TODAY
Its all gone a bit quiet
BigTime
17
TODAY
England Beat Samoa To Take Test Series
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
McMeekan
Trojan Horse
13
TODAY
Englands Women Demolish The Welsh
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Lee Kershaw
Big lads mat
9
TODAY
2025 Shirt
The Whiffy K
11
TODAY
Home Shirt 2025
MattyB
1
TODAY
Uele contract extension
Khlav Kalash
5
TODAY
Squad for Match 2 v Samoa
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 2
Boss Hog
11
TODAY
Sky tv deals
karetaker
7
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 1
Fantastic Mr
29
TODAY
New Kit
karetaker
62
TODAY
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
TODAY
Hybrid rugby
moto748
11
TODAY
Pre Season - 2025
giddyupoldfe
119
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
616
England's Women Demolish The W..
555
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
858
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
666
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
954
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1446
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1683
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
1950
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1531
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1800
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2164
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1728
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1810
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
1946
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2125
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M +11,084 80,15414,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
There are currently no matches to display.
Matches on TV
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024 3 England M34-16Samoa M
WINT2024 2 ENGLAND W82-0WALES W
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Recruitment rumours and links
Wires71
3513
43m
Transfer Talk V5
Trebor1
424
47m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Jake the Peg
3700
Recent
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5152
Recent
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40518
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Paladin Sports
orangeman
5
1m
Pre Season - 2025
giddyupoldfe
119
1m
England vs Samoa
NickyKiss
135
2m
Film game
karetaker
5152
3m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
3m
Ground Improvements
Slugger McBa
123
3m
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63012
5m
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
8m
Squad 2025
the fax in a
24
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Azul
8
TODAY
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
TODAY
Squad contract dates
Trojan Horse
12
TODAY
Paladin Sports
orangeman
5
TODAY
Magic Weekend
Wollo-Wollo-
2
TODAY
War of the Roses
matt_wire
16
TODAY
Dual Reg
PopTart
2
TODAY
Vagana
Scarlet Pimp
10
TODAY
2025 Kit
Wigan Bull
6
TODAY
2025 merchandise
18th Man
12
TODAY
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
TODAY
Its all gone a bit quiet
BigTime
17
TODAY
England Beat Samoa To Take Test Series
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
McMeekan
Trojan Horse
13
TODAY
Englands Women Demolish The Welsh
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Lee Kershaw
Big lads mat
9
TODAY
2025 Shirt
The Whiffy K
11
TODAY
Home Shirt 2025
MattyB
1
TODAY
Uele contract extension
Khlav Kalash
5
TODAY
Squad for Match 2 v Samoa
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 2
Boss Hog
11
TODAY
Sky tv deals
karetaker
7
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 1
Fantastic Mr
29
TODAY
New Kit
karetaker
62
TODAY
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
TODAY
Hybrid rugby
moto748
11
TODAY
Pre Season - 2025
giddyupoldfe
119
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
616
England's Women Demolish The W..
555
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
858
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
666
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
954
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1446
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1683
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
1950
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1531
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1800
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2164
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1728
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1810
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
1946
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2125


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!