I'm dissapointed by that as we have discussed the bet privately, and my ability to put my "money where my mouth is" in a PM and acted accordingly with no dishonour to either party. I do hope you will now accept, on record, that I am quite capable of the challenge you made of backing my side.

I understand your "realism" perspective, of course I do, but remember your realism never had us winning the CC in 2009, despite lots of optimism/bravado/blind faith on here in the early rounds, and that turned out to be actual fact.

Furthermore one could argue that such triumphs against perceived "realism" are what make sport so appealing to fans of a certain side which have been starved of success. We should welcome them, encourage them, strive for them, not temper against, surely?

I'd really rather spend the next 13 weeks thinking we are going to win the double whilst it's a realistic probability. If we don't we dont. Very different from my position under PC when I [iknew [/iwe wouldn't, ever.

Interesting thread and I must say I agree.

Warrington are contenders, they are second in the league.

Warrington are not playing as well as they can in the big games but they don't look like a side who will let a lead slip like we have done. They will not play any poor teams and lose IMO. Losing to Wigan, Saints and Leeds is no disgrace home or away, but losing to Bradford and Quins with the leads we had is.

I am pretty sure Wire will make at least one final. I think it's very important for Warrington to finish in the top 2 to ensure a few home ties in the play-offs, wire have the least play-off experience of all the top teams.

I think you are right about the regulation big league games and the top 2 position. And your comments are very generous.

I do know that neither Saints, Wigan or Leeds would choose to face us in a one-off elimination game in case we finally get the monkey of our backs. We could all beat each other on the day.

What if the top 4 is...

Wigan
Wire
Saints
Leeds

Who would anyone pick? Tough call... it would be based on form IMO not the fact that wire can beat anyone on their day because all 4 teams can do that.

Sorry I replied to your message on here before I read your private message, the reason I was saying it was a daft bet there was that I understood from your offer that you wanted 3-1 odds on us making a semi, which would have meant me paying £3000 if we'd beaten Bradford at Odsal.

On last year I don't remember much optimism/bravado/blind faith on here in the early rounds, not until we'd beaten Hull KR anyway. As each round came up I felt we had a fair chance, although I would have had us as underdogs at Hull KR, about even against Wigan and slight favourites against Hudds, but like this year, if we'd been drawn against Saints or Leeds I thought we'd have been in trouble. I actually overrated our prospects this time last year, I thought we were going to be in the playoffs and would be a fair bet at causing an upset because we could have ended up drawn against Wakey or Hudds.

In all fairness reading Sallys comments i just read as trying to keep your self grounded and not ot expect to much.In case wire dont win anything or reach the targets set out by Ts.Its like what would see as a sucessful season,if your talking league postions then any improvement,on last years spot is a improvement.So you should be pleased with whats been archived so far.For the CC for me its bit different because its all about the draw.

I would certainly agree on that top four, but I don't think that will be the order it's in. I ndon't think any other side at the moment has the quality to get anywhere near those four.

Bradford may have something to say about that this year, they are sneaking up and nobody is really noticing them.

Hudds
Hull
Hull KR

Are all pretty good sides but are not consistant enough.

The rest of super league can all pull off some good results on their day, including Salford

makes no odds who i support. The fact remains you havent beat a title contender. If that doesnt change you wont win the title, its all very well being flat track bullies.

The simple fact to back up the original thread, is, the media (and fans of the so called Big 4) don't like us. The media (in particular, Sky), don't like their little clique of previously successful clubs, in any sport, being upset by having pesky newcomers, shaking up the status quo.

I have to put up with this (slightly aside), being a Man City fan. Whenever they're on Sky, it's just a 90 minute diatribe against them, with any negative statistic the commentators can lay their hands on. One such instance this season, was when City, who were playing away, had "a poor away record this seaon", yet they had (at the time) more away wins than Liverpool (one of the clique), but I've not heard Sky commentators mention Liverpool's poor away form being mentioned all season.

I still remember Andrew John's second game for us (Hull away). If anyone's still got a copy of the game, watch it again, and listen to Stevo's commentary - it just sounds like he's been told his dog has been shot, just because we were winning. To be fair, over the last 5 years, Eddie and Stevo's attitudes have mellowed towards us, but we are where we are in the table ON MERIT.

We just need to keep the faith. Sure, we might lose a few more games until Round 27 ha been played, but nobody wins the Super League in May.
As someone previously said, you don't get any extra points for beating the side sitting top of the table.

Will we win/reach the Grand Final or even reach the semis, who knows. But, with our new found decent form, and a world class coach, I'm damn sure we'll give it a good go.

I'm just looking forward to TS and the boys ramming the words from the varoius media right back down their throats. We've got a damn good squad, a match for anyone, one defeat doesn't put us back where we started.
No reason why we can't go back to Wembley and be making Saints/Wigan/Leeds very nervous about meeting us in the play offs.

I have to be honest riley has a big heart and bags of pace I bet he trains really well but when I see him on your team sheet I think it's gonna be our day. if players like Riley are still getting a game at wire you still have a way to go in havng a really good squad. As you said he wouldn't get anywhere near a start at Leeds, Wigan, saints, hudds unless they were down to the bones. Where as He has a squad number in the first 13 at wire. can't fault his effort but he is prone to errors and his defence isn't the best.

Do you really think Riley is significantly worse than Ryan Hall, Ade Gardner, Leroy Cudjoe? He may or may not be as good but the rest of the 3/4 line is King, Atkins, Bridge, Hicks all of whom would be as good as most other teams'. You can't have top notch in EVERY position.

I'd agree. Riley is an example of pretty good squad depth considering he is a back up player. At Saints we have a the sodding ice skater, a 4 stone centre who can kick ok and a 3 foot tall winger / fullback and TBH I'd swap all three in return for Riley.